Untoasted Oak

[Brew and Wine Supply]

Hey Manly, I'll just send you a chunk of Missouri Oak from my log pile, if you want chips, I'll pull out my chain saw..

 

[Deezil]

Manley,

Thanks for introducing this thread; it has gotten me interested.

After studying this process myself and then ending up with a vegetal/herbaceous wine from fresh grapes (so strong it is overwhelming), I have read that it is untoasted oak powder that has the greatest affect on vegetal in reds, compared to chips and cubes. Many, even larger wineries routinely put untoasted American oak powder in about every fermentation just to make sure, in case a vegetal aroma/flavor happens to be present.

During fermentation, the powder doesn't have much affect on oak flavoring in the wine. Vegetal can sneak up on a wine maker and is much more difficult to get rid of after fermentation is done. Certain yeast strains can certainly reduce vegetal. After fermentation is complete, things like long barrel aging, certain tannins and even large doses of bentonite can be used, but just not as effectively.

Again, in this case it is the powder, rather than chips or cubes, that seems to be preferred. Of course I am sure there are exceptions and any form of untoasted oak should help.

Thanks again.

Hey, i'm all about "lookin under every rock"
Earlier in this thread i said i was gonna try this because i didnt wanna get into all the additives - well i already looked under that rock and pulled the trigger on a bunch of stuff but its all from natural beginnings for the most part, except maybe 1 or 2

Thats interesting about the powder, because most of what i've found is chips.. I was originally thinking i wanted cubes or something - along the lines of oak thinking.. powder < chips < cubes < staves < barrels...

But if thats not that case with untoasted.. We're all learning, here..
Interesting

Hey Manly, I'll just send you a chunk of Missouri Oak from my log pile, if you want chips, I'll pull out my chain saw..

Just use the chips as the packing material for the next order of additives

 

[Deezil]

Vegetal can sneak up on a wine maker and is much more difficult to get rid of after fermentation is done.

Prevention is what got me thinking originally; that's what started the whole ball rollin!

 

[jswordy]

So there i was, reading through the Winemakers Magazine (not sure which one) and i seen this advert on the bottom of the page...

So i called em up, just got off the phone...

Come to find out, Xtra Oak offers a "Plain" oak chip - either french or american

They arent "untoasted" because they go through a small heating process but i believe its just to condition the wood further, the lady on the phone said it was the equivalent of "untoasted" just wasnt "raw wood"

Solves the "source" question.. Now i just gotta prove to myself that it does what i've read it does... Or prove it doesnt.. Stay tuned for that

That's cool.They probably are heated to make sure any potential varrmints are killed off, similar to the way oak pallets are heat-treated.

Malvina, I could easily see where the red oak would impart just such a flavor, so that test is CANCELLED!

 

[BeerAlchemist]

Thats interesting about the powder, because most of what i've found is chips.. I was originally thinking i wanted cubes or something - along the lines of oak thinking.. powder < chips < cubes < staves < barrels...

Your experimental thoughts here is pretty interesting Deezil. As far as powder, if all else fails you could always take some chips and toss it into a Vitamix if you own one, I'm willing to bet that it can blend.

 

[Geronimo]

That is why I got the Cellar Classic Winery Series Italian Super Tuscan kit. It's the only kit I've seen with such a large quantity of untoasted oak. Many people that have made it rave over it.

 

[joeswine]

Untoasted oak???????????

WELL lets look at what we have ,WOOD CHIPS,and not much more,but remember what happens to the wood it gets re-hydrated and the alcohol will extract certain elements from it,I don't no to what extent,may be better for beer than wine,I don't think I would even bother with it,it's not a part of the norm for us.......just my opinion.....

 

[Deezil]

Manley,

Thanks for introducing this thread; it has gotten me interested.

After studying this process myself and then ending up with a vegetal/herbaceous wine from fresh grapes (so strong it is overwhelming), I have read that it is untoasted oak powder that has the greatest affect on vegetal in reds, compared to chips and cubes. Many, even larger wineries routinely put untoasted American oak powder in about every fermentation just to make sure, in case a vegetal aroma/flavor happens to be present.

Hey Robie,

Did you ever come across any sort of 'dosage rates' for untoasted oak powder in various types of wines? Red/White/Mead/Fruit?

 

[jimmyjames23]

I find one small pack of untoasted oak set in the primary for 10 days does a good job without leaving that acrid oak flavor. Works best with the sawdust placed in first then your must slowly poured over top to avoid excessive foaming. After 10 days you can rack off and the oak dust and heavy lees should stay on the bottom.
Accents well with a dark medium/heavy toasted oak set in the bulk aging carboy for 4-6 months to finish.
Best for reds like Merlot, Shiraz and Cab Sauve. Not so well with Alicante, Zinfandel and naturally fruity wines. I assume the low PH (high acidity) reacts with the acrid untoasted oak..usually producing a tart, metallic taste.

 

[tonyt]

I use two to three ounces of oak dust in primary. Does well for me.