Vacuum Filtering gone all wrong

[vacuumpumpman]

I am curious as to why you are using vacuum filtration. It is much more effective to push the wine through the filter. I am an industrial chemist and I very rarely see a vacuum filtration system. Try putting your filter after the pump and you will see much better performance and you will never have this problem. You do need to monitor differential pressure so as to not exceed the recommendation of the media supplier (just like a pool filter). Most filtration systems for small systems don't have a differential pressure gauge, so just make sure your standard pressure gauge is placed on the inlet side of the filter. An increase in pressure indicates clogging and reduced flow. A sudden drop in pressure indicates a hole in the media or "blow-by" around the gaskets. Since your tubing is most likely very short after the filter, you can assume outlet pressure is equal to atmospheric pressure and therefore, is the same as differential pressure.

To answer some of your questions - vacuum would mainly only be used for wine because you want as little contact with Oxygen, it does not come in contact with any impellers or airrates the wine using a vacuum system.It can also fill bottles very easily and very little maintanice and cleanup is a snap also.

The typical filters should be able to filter 60 gallons plus (all depending on your clarity ) and if you notice that the vacuum is increasing and the flow has slowed down - I would come to the conclusion that the filter is partially plugged

 

[ffemt128]

Does the o-ring have any lube on it? Silicone lube works wonders keeping these from binding as you tighten the housing.

I had a very small amount of keg lub on the O-Ring. No binding and seals well.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Would mineral oil work as well ? Atleast I know that it is food grade - not saying the others are not - but I do not normally carry keg lub - but maybe I should ?

 

[BobF]

I wouldn't hesitate to use mineral oil. The amount amount that should be used is very, very little.

Did I mention not much at all?

 

[jvernice]

Do you have a vent valve on the filter housing? If so, it will open under vacuum. You cannot use a filter housing with a vent valve as I mentioned in a previous post, these housing are not meant for vacuum filtration.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I have noticed alot of people on this forum have no problem with the relief valve on top and others do. I would recommend this one that has no vent on the top - if you were going to purchase one.
http://filter.filtersfast.com/search?w=pentek+158326&asug=&view=list&submit1.x=0&submit1.y=0

 

[Wade E]

Ive been using the vent release cap for years with no problem but maybe slight variations in the caps are the difference and some may open, I guess it makes sense, just weird that I and many others have never had a problem.

 

[jvernice]

If you think about it, the vent is spring-to-close and therefore negative pressure (vacuum) will provide a force against the normal spring action and you will get an air leak. If you insist on using this housing, some valves may be replaced with a screw.
I am still curious as to why you insist on using vacuum filtration. In my 35 years of industrial experience I have rarely seen a vacuum filtration system. There are so many negatives to using vacuum versus pressure filtration systems.

 

[Deezil]

I am still curious as to why you insist on using vacuum filtration. In my 35 years of industrial experience I have rarely seen a vacuum filtration system. There are so many negatives to using vacuum versus pressure filtration systems.

It's because we're working with wine

If you're not pulling it with a vacuum, then you're pushing it with..... a propeller? Like an aquarium pump? Cant send your wine through something like that unless its made for wine (expensive) because it will beat up/oxidize/ruin the wine you send through the pump..

Or are you thinking that if you pressurized the carboy holding the wine that it would go through the path of least resistance making its way through a racking cane & tubing into a clean carboy? I dont know how much pressure that would take & it would probably depend some on the elevation of the working carboy & the clean carboy... And then to pressurize a carboy enough to push wine through a filter? I dunno how i'd feel standing around that

 

[vacuumpumpman]

If you think about it, the vent is spring-to-close and therefore negative pressure (vacuum) will provide a force against the normal spring action and you will get an air leak. If you insist on using this housing, some valves may be replaced with a screw.

Unless if you use this one, which has no vent at all -
http://filter.filtersfast.com/search?w=pentek+158326&asug=&view=list&submit1.x=0 &submit1.y=0

I am still curious as to why you insist on using vacuum filtration. In my 35 years of industrial experience I have rarely seen a vacuum filtration system. There are so many negatives to using vacuum versus pressure filtration systems.

To answer some of your questions - vacuum would mainly only be used for wine because you want as little contact with Oxygen, it does not come in contact with any impellers or airrates the wine using a vacuum system.It can also fill bottles very easily and very little maintanice and cleanup is a snap also.

 

[BobF]

Multi-purpose is the crux of it for me. I use vacuum for racking/degassing, so I naturally want to use the equipment for filtering too. There is no way to go the other way. You can't degas with a pump!

 

[Wade E]

Yep, vacuum is way better on your wine then pushing and you cant degas by pushing unless your splash racking. Its also way better on your carboy to transfer as a carboys shape will hold it together way better under vacuum then be pressurized!

 

[jvernice]

I now understand why you want to use vacuum, but you must then deal with the demons associated with not using proper equipment. You can buy a beverage pump with FDA approved contact surfaces for about $200 (http://www.bigbrandwater.com/550se32gpmsu.html). A system which is primed will NOT introduce any air (oxygen) as you are only pushing wine. Cavitation is not usually an issue with pumps of this magnitude, especially the one cites above (3.2 gpm). The only time air would be en-trained would be at the very end of the batch. As my father taught me, use the proper tools for the job and the job will be that much easier.

 

[John Prince]

There is a pressure relief button that sometimes leaks. Take the top off and tighten the screw from the bottom. I've had problems with that before.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

There is a pressure relief button that sometimes leaks. Take the top off and tighten the screw from the bottom. I've had problems with that before.

John
there is typically a stop on the button part so you can only tighten it soo much. The best option is to purchase one without the release valve
pentek 158326 = $7.99
pentek 158116 = 15.60
from filterfast.com

or you can always remove the valve and use a stainless steel bolt and washers or orings on both side to completely seal it off

 

[John Prince]

Just when I thought I didn't need anything else. Thanks, I'll order it tomorrow.

 

[REDBOATNY]

I posted on another thread an easy way to bypass the relief valve. Remove the spring, and either shorten the screw, or drill and tap the red button through, tighten the screw securely against the seal.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I would like to let everyone know that I started a new thread on
Tips and tricks for the whole house filtration system - If you ever had a problem with the whole house filtration - I believe I might of found a solution for you -

see link and let me know your comments on that thread - please

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f71/tips-tricks-using-whole-house-filter-37737/

 

[jvernice]

Hello calvindcd! What you are seeing are bubbles from the filter media. Since you are using a depth filter and its surface area is so great, it could take a very long time to "extract" the bubbles from the filter. Yes, these are bubble that must be displaced by water (or wine). If you pump water through it, you will get rid of the bubbles much faster; and if you insist, you can then switch to vacuum filtering. By the way, pumping though the filter is always better than vacuum filtering. I know I will foster some controversy from a lot of home brewers, but I work on industrial scale filtration and have decades of experience with filtration systems, and pumping not only eliminates this problem (as well as many others), but these filters and housing are designed to be used under pressure, not vacuum. Give pumping a try and you will not be sorry.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Hello calvindcd! What you are seeing are bubbles from the filter media. Since you are using a depth filter and its surface area is so great, it could take a very long time to "extract" the bubbles from the filter. Yes, these are bubble that must be displaced by water (or wine). If you pump water through it, you will get rid of the bubbles much faster .

I believe that calvindcd mentioned this in his first post
"I did notice that there was air bubbles traveling up the threads of the housing suggesting an air leak. I reseated, retightened, etc but nothing"

With that being said - I would assume that he possibly has the wrong type filter or housing. It really has nothing to do with vacuum or pressure.
Please check out this thread to make sure that you are using the proper filter vs housing whether you are using vacuum or pressure

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f71/tips-tricks-using-whole-house-filter-37737/