Mosti Mondiale Vinifera Noble Pinot Noir

[TomK-B]

This is my first attempt at home wine making. I got the equipment pack from finevinewines.com with the Vinifera Noble Pinot Noir kit.

The primary fermentation went well. My original SG was 1.090. My wine reached a SG of 1.030 within three days. I racked it to the carboy, added the oak, etc. and watched it continue to ferment vigorously. It reached a SG of .996 on day six. This has remained stable until today - day eight. So, I racked it to another carboy, added the K-meta and began de-gassing. I was surprised at how little CO2 came out. I was using the drill powered stir-stick that came with the equipment pack. Then, I tried the vacuvin. But I got very little response. I will say that during the first three days it was in the carboy, the bubbles were coming out of the airlock fast and furious. So, I know that there has been a LOT of CO2 action going on in the wine. I went ahead and added the fining agents and topped off the carboy as per instructions. But I was really surprised at getting so little response from the de-gassing procedures. Is this OK?

 

[grapeman]

There is a lot of variability in the response you can get from all kits. It will be fine. Give it some more time and maybe try the vacuum again. Also be sure the wine temp is about 70 deg or a bit higher when doing it. Welcome to the forum.

 

[vcasey]

There are so many factors involved in degassing wine..........
If the wine is cold it can be challenging to get the CO2 out, or so I have read. When it's warm it can be very, very easy to degass the wine. Rough racking helps a lot as well. Is your experience normal? I have had wines that seemed not to want to part with the CO2 and others just didn't want to let go, so yes it is most likely just fine. After you rack it off the fining try the vacuvin again and make sure the wine temp is around 75. If you are concerned you can wait a couple of months to bottle this so it can age and more gas can escape.
While you are waiting (or not) for this kit to age pick up a white wine kit to help hold you off. The white wines tend to be ready to drink much faster and as soon as you bottle the white pick up a big red wine and go on and get that extra carboy so it can age.
Welcome to the hobby and the forum.

 

[TomK-B]

Thanks for the info! Very encouraging.

I was planning to bulk age this batch, so that sounds like a good plan for dealing with any potential de-gassing issue I may be having. I also went out yesterday and purchased a Wine Expert kit called "Viognier." My thought was that a bottle of red and a bottle of white would make a good Christmas present to friends and family (provided, of course, they turn out well).

I also like the suggestion of picking up an extra carboy and a big red wine. Hmmmmm any suggestions as to what I might consider? Also, any thoughts about glass carboy vs. Better Bottle?

 

[Rocky]

Hi Tom, Welcome to the Forum and the madness that is this hobby!
On the degassing question, did you record the temperature of the wine prior to degassing? As stated above, it should be in the mid 70's for a good degassing. You also said you used the power stirrer and the vacuvin, so it is not something as simple as not having the paddles on the power stirrer spread open. I find that when I use my power stirrer, I move the unit up and down slowly as power is applied to the drill so that the paddles are spinning in throughout the depth of the carboy.


On your carboy question, there are pros and cons for both glass and the BB. I like the glass (more solid surface, less chance of scratching and hiding mold but breakable, heavier, harder to handle and more expensive) for long term (bulk) aging. The BB (lighter, easier to handle, "unbreakable" unless you really try, less expensive but surface is not as hard) is good for the early stages of the process. I recommend having some of each. I have two BB's and 15 glass. Check garage sales, Craigs List and eBay for sales. You will find that they tend to multiply quickly in this hobby.

 

[PeterZ]

If you really get into this hobby you will probably eventually buy a vacuum pump for racking. Many of us have. You can vacuum rackFROM a Better Bottle, but not TO a BB. You can only vacuum rack to glass.

 

[vcasey]

I use both BB & Glass carboys for both long term and short term aging and really like the BBs because they are so much lighter, you just need to be careful and remove the airlock when moving or it will suck the liquid in the airlock down into the wine.
Some folks here use a vacuum system that will help degass the wine and move it from carboy to carboy (glass only) without you picking up a carboy except to clean.

 

[ibglowin]

Lots of great advice here. I agree 100% that most kits will have a ton of CO2 but every now and then one will just degas pretty much all on its own. I just had a Limited Release Carmenere-Cabernet that should have been loaded but was devoid of CO2 when I went to degas on day 18.

Welcome to the FVW forums!

 

[robie]

Even after I "think" I already have my wine degassed properly and before bottling, when I have just racked to a clean glass carboy, I will vacuum again, just to make sure. Sometimes I am surprised that I get another boat load of CO2 to come out. Initially I started doing this with a Vacuvin, which really does work well; now I have my own electric vacuum pump.

As the others have written, to degas effectively, you have to get the temperature up above 70F.

Even with my electric vacuum pump, I still find myself having to lift and move my carboys. That's because I do my racking in one room, but store my filled carboys in a large, cool closet in another room. The fermenting/racking room has water, and drains, just in case I make a mess.

This means that every time I rack, I have to carry the carboy back into the racking room, rack, then carry it back into the storage area. Oh well, at least I have the brew hauler netted carriers, which George sales; they really help.

 

[TomK-B]

You guys are great! Thanks for all the feedback.

The question of temperature has come up several times. Sorry I didn't mention it before. I took the temp. of the must when I set it up for the primary fermentation - 76F. I kept the wine in a corner of the kitchen during both primary and secondary fermentation. We keep the thermostat in our house set between 75F and 77F. So, even though I haven't put a thermometer in the wine since the first day, I'm making the assumption that the temp. has remained in the mid-70s.

I've moved it into my son's former bedroom because we keep the door closed and lights off, so it turns out to be the coolest room in the house. I'll leave it there for clearing and then rack it back into my glass carboy (it's currently in a BB - thus my question about that) and hit it with the vacuvin again to see what I get. Then I plan to bulk age it until the holidays in the cool, dark room.

I bought one of the brew haulers and am using it to help move the stuff around. You should have heard my 19 year old daughter's laugh when she saw the package on the kitchen table labeled "brew hauler."

 

[joeswine]

there are some downsides to using a vacuum pump,if your not very carefull,you can create a volume in balance,where onces you've degassed the lite gases from the wine you then start to removing the alcohol from the wine then the water and you'll end up with a wine with no taste at all,,,if you wanted to make a concentrate thats basically how you would do it under 2 to 5 psi..

 

[TomK-B]

Now, that's no good at all. I thought my objective was to move the opposite direction from concentrate (and tasteless).

 

[v1rotate]

My results improved quite a bit when I started using a vacuum pump. I perform a vacuum splash rack at the stabilize step and again at the clarify step and that is all the degassing I do. I don't believe alcohol will boil off at 25" of hg vacuum, which is more than I pull.

 

[joeswine]

what actually happens is you boil off layers of the wine,and the net result can be a tasteless colored liquid,at least at 30" of vacuum thats about 500 micron,your pulling a deep vacuum,(2 to 5") is not a deep vacuum its suttle but positive effect can be controlled,I'm by trade a ac contractor and I no vacuum pumps,we had discuss this at length at one point in this form and what I was told I'm passing on along with the experience of having damaged 12 gallons of wine and the having to correct them,(when good wines gone bad)I noticed wade had a vacuum pump that filtered also very cool,deep vacume ause a implosion and can shatter a glass carboy like ice with hammer,I've also experienced this,picke upshards of glass for over a year,ever ones experience is different and should be (a little) with this topic ,IT CAN BE DANGEROUS.just be caucuses.....

 

[v1rotate]

Here is a quote from Tim Vandergrift in a blog he wrote for Winemaker Magazine concerning vacuum degassing:

So where does that leave me? Still firmly in the 'you don't need a
vacuum pump to make excellent, well-degassed wine at home' camp. Pitch
the yeast in your kit when the must is 75F (24C) and keep it there
throughout the process and you should have no trouble with excess gas. I
have (quite literally) made thousands of wine kits, and out of all of
them have only used a vacuum pump twice, both times in emergencies when I
needed to get the gas out in a hurry.


But it's the exception that proves the rule, and while I'm dismissive
of it as a crutch, it doesn't hurt the wine in any way, neither
reducing sulphite or inducing flavour or aromatic deficiencies, and if
you've got one of those wine-related emergencies, it can make all the
difference in the world.

Emphasis above was added by me.




It's an interesting blog. Here is a link if anyone wants to read it:




http://winemakermag.com/blogs/chasing-the-fizz.html/blogger/Tim Vandergrift


My purpose with this post is not to beat my chest, but rather to point out that vacuum degassing and vacuum splash racking are valid tools which won't harm the wine assuming you use only moderate levels of vacuum.

 

[TomK-B]

LOL!!!

Hey guys, I am a psychotherapist by profession. Over the past two days since I posted this thread there have been a few times when I thought I was sitting in a couples therapy session. Is this the nature of this beast?

 

[Rocky]

Tom, Wine making is in fact a science, but we practice it mainly as an art. As such, there are differing experiential views that we all have. There are a number of Type I and Type II errors made in our analyses, although we are justified by the outcome of our wine making. If the wine is good, then what we did was right. If it isn't good, what we did was wrong. We are hoist on the petard of the post hoc fallacy.

 

[v1rotate]

Yeah, what Rocky said!

 

[joeswine]

probably the main difference in what vandergrift was doing and me I was applying the vacuum at 30 psi on fresh juice product ,the net result for me,was know flavor left,and damage to a carboy,WADE do you remember the thread whenyou saidto me it could be dangerous,and it turned out to be........we all make our own way throught this wine journey,and at times do the same thing with different results ,he use a concentrated kit,I used fresh juice (doesn't have the staying power concentrates do) so I lost my flavor,it left me with 12 gallons of two different wines with color and alcohol ,nothing else and one expolded,thats what happened,(to much vacume for that carboy).wEre it leaves you my fine wine fellow is to THINK OUT SIDE THE BOX....

NO HARM INTENDED..........................

 

[TomK-B]

Rocky, I've been hoisted on that petard a few times myself. But it looks to me like wine making is in fact an art that many seek to practice scientifically. Nothing wrong with that in my book. I feel at home.

By the way, every time I see your signature line, "Wine . . . it's not just for breakfast anymore," it brings a big smile to my face!