Waldo's Black Widow Blackberry

[Waldo]

Racked and stabilized the Black Widow early this morning but due to time constraints I did not degass until this evening. I added 5/8 tsp. Potassium Metabisulphite and 2-1/2 tsp Sorbate dissolved in about 3oz warm water and stirred it in good and let it set until this evening.

It took about 8 minutes of stirring to degass this one but I am confident a good job was accomplished.

For those interested, here is a short video of the degassing. I would recommend turning your speakers down unless you enjoy hearing a drill running with a tv blaring in the background.
http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d186/wjjames26011/?action=view&current=blackberrydegassed.flv
I drew off a sample and it has gained a richer color as well as more complex flavors. For a lack of better terminology at the moment...It was good!!

I added 3 oz of French oak, Medium Toast which I will leave in contact with the wine for 2 weeks and then begin sampling until I reach the level of oakiness I desire. In the Blackberry I like just a hint of oak to it.

The Black Widow Blackberry is now all snug in it's black tee shirt and beginning the clearing process.I anticipate the next racking will occur around September 1st.Edited by: Waldo

 

[JWMINNESOTA]

Truly an interesting color to it, cant wait until September!

 

[Wade E]

5/8 tsp of Pot. Meta, just curious as to why so much?

 

[nasv]

Waldo, those are some great pics and a nice demonstrative video! Thanks for sharing! I wish my blackberry batch would be gaining better flavors... its still too "jet fuel"

I think I may have to go for the "extract" method.

-Nico

 

[Waldo]

5/8 tsp of Pot. Meta, just curious as to why so much?

That is the recommended dosgae from the Mfg. Wade( 1/8 tsp. per gallon) This one will be aged for over a year.

 

[Waldo]

Thanks nav...I believe you would really benifit from and enjoy a steamer/juicer. If you do decide to get one I would get the stainless steel version.

 

[Wade E]

Waldo is this an old bag because I rememberthere being a misprint on a
bunch of the bags. I believe its supposed to read 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons. I hope Im wrong about this but dont think I am.


Edited by: wade

 

[Waldo]

It is a relatively new bottle that I got from George around the 1st of April I believe. This is the one I reveived and it still shows 1/8 tsp per gallon.
http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=7050A


I hope you are wrong too wade

Edited by: Waldo

 

[grapeman]

The label looks like it gives 150 mg per gallon at that rate - seems like about twice as much as we usually add. If that is all the batch has ever had it should be ok, but if it has had a few small doses before, it may be higher than desired.

 

[Waldo]

So how much do the campden tablets add? The dosage for them is 1 tablet per gallon of wine. This is the first time I have used the powdered K Meta .
Have I ruined my Black Widow Blackberry

I sure hope notEdited by: Waldo

 

[Wade E]

This is what I was trying to get an answer on awhile ago because it is
too confusing. LD Carlson brand states 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons on all
their stuff nd the crosby states 1/8 tsp per 1 gallon on theirs yet
every recipe I read states to add 1/4 tsp to their batch to age
properly. Surely these 2 brands cant vary that much in strength of Pot
Meta can they. If so I would not want to add all that powder to my
batch if I can just add a little of the LD Carlson. By the way Waldo
something else just struck me as funny as I have a bag of the Crosby
& Baker Pot Meta in my wineroom that I have not opened that states
1/8 tsp per gallon for 100 ppm
free SO2? What the heck is going on here? Is their product that screwy
that eac bag as to be added in different amounts? I really dont like
this and believe this a problem that needs to be solved. I have pmed
both Masta and George on this to hopefully get an answer.


Edited by: wade

 

[stormbringer]

Waldo,
Here are a couple of descriptions of K-Meta/campden tablet SO2 contentprovided by various sources on the internet:


Each campden tablet contains 0.50 - 0.55 grams of potassium metabisulfite; chemically speaking, each tablet contains 57% sulphur content; therefore, 1 tablet per gallon = 75 ppm SO2.<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />


I read conflicting accounts of the SO2 in K-Meta. One source says 1/16 tsp. per gallon water = 55 ppm SO2. Another source says1/4 tsp. =40 - 50 ppm SO2.


At any rate it appears a little goes a long way.

I purchased a bottle of campden tablets because a lot of the fruit wine recipees call for it. Have not had anyadverse effects in my wines by using 1/4 tsp. of K-Meta in the must instead of the X number of campden tablets per gallon formulas.


I have yet to use any of the campden tablets. My K-Meta additions seem to work for me.


At fining, I use 3/4 tsp. K-Meta (in addition to sorbate, isinglass, etc.).


As an aside, I read in this forum that filtering tends to remove some or all of the K-meta. If this is true, I'll add 1/4 tsp. totheprimary bucketthat I filter in to at bottling.

 

[Wade E]

To add to that and Im sure you know this Waldo as youve been making
wine longer than me, your batch is not ruined by any means. It is
either right on the money if the products do vary that much or it is a
little over sulfited which might just need a little heavy racking or
aging a little longer.

 

[Waldo]

Thanks wade...Will wait and see what George has to say.

 

[masta]

I know the labeling by Crosby &amp; Baker and LD Carlson does lead to confusion but I will give you the facts as I know them in regards to addition of powder K-meta.
Based on these assumptions which most resources tend to agree on.


<UL>
<LI>1/8 tsp = .75 grams or 750 milligrams ofpotassium metabisulfite (K-meta) sold by retailers like George
<LI>K-meta powder contains 57.6 % sulfur dioxide
<LI>50% of the total SO2 added will become bound and leaves 50% as free SO2. Free SO2 is what we are concernedabout to protect our wines.
<LI>1 US gallon equals 3.78 liters
<LI>milligrams per liter or mg/l is the same as parts per million or ppm</LI>[/list]


Using these assumptions above the math works out like this:

1. 
   <LI>1/8 tsp or 750 mg of K-meta contains 432 mg of Total SO2 (750 x 57.6%)
   <LI>After 50% of the total SO2 becomes bound 216 mg is free SO2 (432 x 50%)
   <LI>In one gallon 1/8 tsp of K-meta should yield 57 mg/l or 57 ppm free SO2 (216 / 3.78)</LI>

In Waldo's case of adding 5/8 tsp of K-meta to 5 gallons this should have added ~57 ppm of free SO2.









Edited by: masta

 

[Wade E]

I guess I will just have to use the Accuvin free SO2 test to know what
the heck Im doing since Im the farthest thing from a scientist!

Edited by: wade

 

[Waldo]

Thanks Masta...Does that mean then taht if you are using LD Carlson theirs is stronger or you are not adding enough

 

[peterCooper]

As an added question, how does SO2 attenuate over time. If it is 100ppm at bottling, where should it be after 1 year, 2 years etc?

 

[masta]

Until someone can confirm that Crosby and LD Carlson are selling two different strengths of K-meta I would suggest following the directions by the kit makers of adding 1/4 tsp/1.5 grams of K-meta for extended aging (past 6 months to 5 years under good storage conditions). This should add roughly ~20 ppm of free SO2 to a 6 gal/23 L batch.


I would follow the same math when adding K-meta to fruit wines and you have doubts on the free SO2 levela test kit might be in order. The levels can change before the wine is bottled depending on how much the wine is stirred during degassing and exposure to the air during multiple rackings. A good target range for any wine for protection over time is 30-50 ppm of free SO2.


BTW: Don't forget the amount of molecular SO2 (which is what provides the true protection for the wine) increases in the unbound or free SO2 as the temperature increases and pH decreases. This means a lower pH wine stored in a warmer place needs less free SO2 levels for the proper protection for extended aging.

I have not found much info on the SO2 loss in bottled wine other than there is a slow reduction (anywhere from a few ppm a year to 20-30% after 5 years) and storage conditions due play a role in the loss also.

 

[geocorn]

According to Mosti Mondiale, it takes about 3 months for the free SO2 to leave an airlocked carboy; however, if the vessel is sealed, like a corked bottle, there is nowhere for the SO2 to go, so you don't have to worry.


As to how much to add, I think Masta's research and calculations are the best I have seen, so no need to worry, Waldo.


I do wish the manufacturer's did a better job of labeling. I plan to package and label my chemicals at some point in time and I will be very specific and clear.