Wasting time and effort on being too clean...

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joea132

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I have been reading alot lately about people being worried about cleanliness with their winemaking equipment. I see it turning into a neurosis amongst home wine makers today. From my personal opinion and my personal experiences, this is very much over-played and over-hyped amongst ourselves. Let me explain my OPINION...

When you have fresh juice or must or even an unfermented kit, you have an environment that is an excellent place to harbor microorganisms that could be harmful to your wine. This is the most vulnerable stage in a wine's life as it has no inherent protection against bad bugs. This is why we sulfite our must and use strong yeast to ferment down. This is when the cleanliness counts. Use sanitizer solution and spray your utensils and tools down before you punch down your cap or take samples.

Along the same lines when a wine has fermented and created alcohol, it now has a level of inherent protection from microorganisms. Alcohol by itself cannot harbor most microorganisms. Granted at the levels we have it is not high enough to counter against every kind of bug. But after you ferment and secondary ferment (should you choose to), you should be adding sulfites to hedge your bets and add another layer of protection on your investment. Bulk aging and clearing is not nearly as prone to bacterial infection as it was before fermentation. Most of the time when I rack my wine I simply rinse out the carboy if it appears to be clean with hot water and let it dry. I haven't had one single problem with infection at all.

Even for bottling if I have new bottles I will only rinse them out for 5 seconds or so on the bottle washer with hot water. I have yet to have a bottle that was spoiled. My point is that people should not be losing sleep over sanitizing to a surgical level after fermentation. I can't say I recommend being a slob after fermentation and you may be the unlucky one that gets screwed but chances are you won't. I understand you spend alot of time and money on your wine endeavors as do I, and many of you will say you might as well have the best chance. This is absolutely true and you are right, but on the flip side it may not be as dangerous as it seems to not be surgical clean.

I guess my point is that wine making should be fun and easy going. You are making something that you are going to have fun with and the process itself is a blast! Relax, pour another glass of wine, eat something bad for you, and enjoy the process! Don't sweat the small stuff.

AGAIN THIS IS BASED ON MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND IS MY OPINION!
 
C'mon this ought to stir the pot a bit. I bet we get 3 pages of argument!!!!
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Ahhhh Joe.. I agree with almost everything you do except bottle cleaning. You are spending too much time and effort being too clean(I think I heard that somewhere. The bottles are brand new and sterilized. I give them a quik meta rinse and then bottle. Most wineries don't pre-wash either unless if they have a automated bottling line that does it.
 
You have got to be kidding me!!! Get off my website now!!!! LOL Just kidding, I agree as we do do way more then need be but I just dont have the liberty of having a batch go bad. Things are very tight here and a 6 gallon batch gone south would be a catastrophe!
 
Thanks Joe
You seem like you sanitize pretty well, except for the bottling part. I have well water which means no chlorine to kill off any bacteria that could be in the well or water lines. I like others are confused about the amounts of sulfite needed to be added to make a sanitizer ( the original meta says 2oz per gallon, 56 grams ) If I sanitize that with all my carboys and bottles - it will leave a coating left in those containers -causing my SO2 to spike , (possibly ruining the wine , my wife is sensitive to sulfites )
If I went with that - dropping the ph of water to wines ph it would be equal to 8523 PPM of sulfite. I can’t find what the SO2 would be without dropping the ph to a wine level. I will usually check my so2 prior to bottling ,but never once the wine has already been in the bottle.

thanks steve
 
Was going to take my wine making equipment to the sanatorium but thought better of it and decided my spray bottle of Kmeta would do.
:< :slp
 
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I use a nuclear solution to spray on my equipment before fermentation. I pour in a ridiculous amount of sulfites into the spray bottle. No measurements but I rinse the hell out of everything afterwards.
 
I use a nuclear solution to spray on my equipment before fermentation. I pour in a ridiculous amount of sulfites into the spray bottle. No measurements but I rinse the hell out of everything afterwards.

Joe, are your sure that you are not Mike(Ibeglowin) posting in disguise?? Lol, anyway, guess I kinda agree with you. I keep everything clean, use some sulfite solutions to help sanatize and keep on drinkin. Course, guess most of my wines do not last long enough to find out if they are gonna spoil. Take care, Arne.
 
Joe, why do you bother sanitizing with a nuclear solution in the beginning only to rinse after wards which IMO is like wasting youtr time as you may just be introducing bacteria all over again?
 
I don't think my wine glows when I turn out the lights in the winery! I have to admit, this is one place you can be anal. I suppose that all it takes is one time that you lose a batch due to poor sanitizing practices will fix you up good for life. I always rinse tubes, and canes and carboys with lots of water after using them, then sanitize them with KMETA before use.

Never had a problem so must be doing something right. I have to admit, I will grab my wine thief and just stick it in to a carboy for a sample every now and then w/o sanitizing it. I always rinse it well of course afterwards.

Since I live in the desert southwest things dry very FAST in these parts, so not much time to have bugs growing in wet dark areas as they don't stay wet for very long..... :b
 
I'm with the New Mexican ^^^

If one is good at following instructions, one can always make good wine. The only problem area can be in cleanliness and sanitation. I want every possibility for my wine to turn out great. That means being anal in the one area that is responsible for 99% of all winemaking disasters.

Cleaned & Sanitized!!! Cleaned & Sanitized!!! Cleaned & Sanitized!!! Can I get an AMEN!
 
I completely respect that mentality but we are scaring our new winemakers into submission. I see more and more questions in here that stem from the uber cleanliness thing. What I'm trying to say is that they shouldn't be so terrified and intimidated.
 
Joe I unerstand where you're coming from but if anyone is making beer I understand you have to be even more anal about sanitizing than with wine.

I walked in on Bueford this morning helping out...

STOMPINGGRAPES.gif
 
Ahhhh Joe.. I agree with almost everything you do except bottle cleaning. You are spending too much time and effort being too clean(I think I heard that somewhere. The bottles are brand new and sterilized. I give them a quik meta rinse and then bottle. Most wineries don't pre-wash either unless if they have a automated bottling line that does it.

Actually, most newly manufactured bottles are not cleaned and sterilized. They're immediately boxed after coming off the production line. Just an FYI. :h
 
Beer is much worse and sanitizing is much more needed as the ph and at are not like wine and vert favorable for microbes to become a nice sweet home for them. That why its very important to make a good yeast starter to get fermentation going as strong as possible as fast as possible.
 
What I find funny is that when I've made beer I only used B Brite and rinsed the heck out of it. I've done a good 7 or 8 batches and never had a problem. But I definitely agree about needing more sanitation for beer.
 
I use chloriclean (pink powder) for cleaning and k-meta for rinsing everything before it is used. I dont rinse off the k-meta. I use the same procedures for wine and beer. it works for me and is a simple process once you have a routine

now a bit more on what Joe says about being to clean

a friend of mine has been making around 20-24 premium wine kits every year for at least 20 years. he only uses chloriclean and hot water. he wouldn't even know what k-meta is. he also never uses a hydrometer and just racks to other carboys when ever he gets around to it. he has never had any problems. go figure. so he is either very lucky or its harder to screw up than you think

cheers
 
...a friend of mine has been making around 20-24 premium wine kits every year for at least 20 years...

He must be a supplier to NSLC?? or perhaps a little bootlegging?? Man, that's a lot of wine!!
 

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