Wasting time and effort on being too clean...

[Putterrr]

Tell me about it. he had carpel tunnel surgery on both hands (one end of november and second 2 weeks later) and i have been recruited as strong man. add to all his wine are 3 kits he is making for a friend. i am practically living over there. at least there is always a glass to sip on

cheers

 

[mmadmikes1]

Actually, most newly manufactured bottles are not cleaned and sterilized. They're immediately boxed after coming off the production line. Just an FYI.

They are made out of VERY hot molten glass, I am sure all the bugs are DEAD

 

[Runningwolf]

C'mon this ought to stir the pot a bit. I bet we get 3 pages of argument!!!!
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::

You

you!

 

[Flem]

They are made out of VERY hot molten glass, I am sure all the bugs are DEAD

Yup! I know how they're made and yes, the bugs are dead. However, after they're made, they are still exposed to airborne contaminants such as grease and oil. I'm just saying that I'd never put wine in new bottles without first washing them.

 

[mmadmikes1]

Yup! I know how they're made and yes, the bugs are dead. However, after they're made, they are still exposed to airborne contaminants such as grease and oil. I'm just saying that I'd never put wine in new bottles without first washing them.

Hell I have never put wine in a new bottle. I have a nice Italian restaurant and a winery that let be dumpster dive for bottles. I wash and sterilize all of mine.
I was preatty sure you know how bottles were made, I was being a smart @$$

 

[Flem]

Hell I have never put wine in a new bottle. I have a nice Italian restaurant and a winery that let be dumpster dive for bottles. I wash and sterilize all of mine.
I was preatty sure you know how bottles were made, I was being a smart @$$

I know your were!!

 

[jswordy]

Well, I'm not uber-experienced at it so maybe I shouldn't even post here, but I just make sure everything touches a no-wash cleaner/sterilant before the must/wine touches it, including my corks and hands. I am not super-anal about timing the contact and stuff like some folks I know are, and I don't keep corks in a cork safe. This may not be correct, but I've had no problems so far. I would suppose that if I were to age my bottled wine longer than 1 year, I would have to step it up a bit more.

I am contemplating going to a synthetic cork in the future for several reasons, one being ease of sanitation.

Making wine in the 1950s and '60s, all my grandpa had were chlorine bleach and boiling water, and he did fine enough to fill a few 30-gallon barrels every year. I feel fortunate to have a wider chemical arsenal than he did.

 

[robie]

All it takes is one nice batch being ruined to understand the reasoning for good sanitation.

I sanitize everything that touches my wine. I even sanitize something like a spoon or drill stirrer when I go from one carboy to the next, even if two carboys are from the same batch. If that is overkill, then so be it. I feel pretty good about it. I know there is no guaranty, but I am less likely to ever have any contamination that way.

Just do what you are comfortable with. If it works for you, don't be concerned about how others approach it.

Yep, I know, in old Italy, they didn't have any of the modern sanitizers and they got by just fine. Maybe they never had a single contamination incident. But you can say their changes for having contamination were many times greater than those who, based on modern technique and chemicals, do it "by the book".

I will say this to jswordy. It is good that you are going to synthetic corks, if you still are using chlorine based cleaners. It has been proven scientifically that using chlorine around corks can cause cork taint, which can ruin a nice bottle of wine. The true synthetics I don't believe are subject to cork taint.

 

[BobF]

I was going to ignore this thread ... but ...

I spend a lot of time planting, growing, tending, searching in the wild, picking, preparing, etc. Or maybe I spend $$ buying grapes of a certain variety or fruit/juice of a particular type.

I prepare the must, test acidity, sugar levels, adjust, nuture, rack, adjust ... test and adjust some more.

In the grand scheme, spritzing sanitizer on tools to make sure everything is sanatized is such a small % of the total time spent ... not to mention the wasted effort/$$ if the bugs take over ...

No thanks, I think I'll keep cleaning and sanatizing. If I want to save time, I'll hire somebody to do some of the stuff that takes way more time to do than spritzing my gear with a bit of kmeta/citric before I use it.

Seriously? Sanatizing is where you're gonna' draw the line on time invested?

Do a Time-In-Motion on the process from beginning to end and I'm sure you'll find better places to focus on saving time/effort.

 

[milbrosa]

Bob, and others who spritz sanitizer on equipment... what are you spritzing, and how long do you let it sit before using it?

I'm just curious what others do. Here is my routine:

I don't like metabisulfite because of the odor and respiratory bite, but I will use it when I don't have to stick my nose in it. I use it mainly to fume sanitize corks, the filters on my Buon Vino Superjet, and sometimes to sanitize bottles (with a vinator).

If I have a fair amount of activity lined up, like stirring wines in primary and checking gravity, or sanitizing carboys or primary fermenting vessels (trash cans), or airlocks and bungs, or auto-siphons and racking canes and tubing, I'll mix up a couple gallons of Iodophor and use that. I submerge equipment in the Iodophor for 2 minutes, then shake off excess liquid and use the equipment, then rinse it and put it back in the Iodophor for the next use. I seldom leave anything in Iodopho for more than five minutes though, as it stains and discolors. If it's a carboy or fermenter, I slosh it about every minute or so to rewet all surfaces for about 10 minutes. I discard the Iodophor when I'm done using it, as it doesn't keep well.

I keep Star San in a spray bottle. I use it for quick spritz jobs on testing and stirring equipment when I don't want to mix up a couple gallons of Iodophor. I wait a couple minutes before shaking off excess Star San and using the equipment. Because it sticks pretty good to the plastic of my primaries and stays wet for long enough to do the job, it is my preferred "spray on" sanitizer for plastic primaries. I don't like it for carboys because of the hideous foam (which I'm not afraid of, just don't care for it).

 

[BobF]

Bob, and others who spritz sanitizer on equipment... what are you spritzing, and how long do you let it sit before using it?

I'm just curious what others do. Here is my routine:

I don't like metabisulfite because of the odor and respiratory bite, but I will use it when I don't have to stick my nose in it ...

I use kmeta/citric. I spray what I'll be using next and leave it for a minute or two while I do something else. Shake off the excess and have it!

 

[jswordy]

I will say this to jswordy. It is good that you are going to synthetic corks, if you still are using chlorine based cleaners. It has been proven scientifically that using chlorine around corks can cause cork taint, which can ruin a nice bottle of wine. The true synthetics I don't believe are subject to cork taint.

Like I say, I'm not expert. I use a k meta wash on the corks. I think a lot of it has to do with time in a bottle. If I were planning to cellar my wine longer than a year (most makes it 6 months or less), and if it were not kept at a constant 55-60 degrees in a thermostatically controlled cooler, I'd be evermore cautious.

My grandpa had to develop a very specific way of going about making his wine because he was limited in his arsenal. That was the comparison I was drawing.

I have friends who still successfully make wine without using anything but Chlorox and boiling water. They are scared of "the chemical brew." And I have seen people who leave their carboys dirty after siphoning so long that green stuff grows in them. That doesn't mean I want to do it that way.

Somewhere along that fear vs. benefit line, there's a happy medium for every winemaker, don't you think?

 

[robie]

Somewhere along that fear vs. benefit line, there's a happy medium for every winemaker, don't you think?

I agree. We are all different with very different experiences.

 

[twistedvine]

You have got to be kidding me!!! Get off my website now!!!! LOL Just kidding, I agree as we do do way more then need be but I just dont have the liberty of having a batch go bad. Things are very tight here and a 6 gallon batch gone south would be a catastrophe!

You said do do...

 

[jswordy]

This is a pic of primary fermentation at an 85,000 case a year winery. I think it is illustrative of many things in this discussion.

My cork supplier actually says there is no need to do anything to the corks before they are used, as long as they come from the sealed cork bag. Here, I err on the side of caution.