WATER BOTTLES

[Guest]

Greetings again all.


Have a question.
I have a source for plastic, 3 gallon, commercialwater bottles with 2" dia mouths and 2" deep, trraight necks.


1) Has anyone used these containers for extended periods in the past ?
2) What size cork do I need to air trap this particular neck for fermentation purposes?
3) Has anyone tried, mid term aging (2 to 6 months)in this type of vessel prior to bottling?
4) If so, how did it work?

 

[vcasey]

I would recommend you use them for water - not wine. These are NOT like better bottles and are very porous.

 

[Tom]

Greetings again all.


Have a question.
I have a source for plastic, 3 gallon, commercialwater bottles with 2" dia mouths and 2" deep, trraight necks.


1) Has anyone used these containers for extended periods in the past ?
2) What size cork do I need to air trap this particular neck for fermentation purposes?
3) Has anyone tried, mid term aging (2 to 6 months)in this type of vessel prior to bottling?
4) If so, how did it work?

I would not use these for any aging. Water bottles will let O2 in through the walls and will oxidize.


If it was OKthere would be no market for better bottles.


But take a look first at the underside of the bottle at the symbol...

Here's some of the other codes....and some info.

1. PET or PETE – Light gauge containers such as store bought pop bottles should be a one time use only. Heavier gauge containers show no evidence of leaching chemicals.

2. HDPE – not known to leach unwanted chemicals.

3. PVC or V – Bad – Strong evidence to show the leaching of DEHA, a known human carcinogen.

4. LDPE – not known to leach unwanted chemicals although not as widely recycled as #1 or #2.

5. PP – not known to leach unwanted chemicals although not as widely recycled as #1 or #2.

6. PS - suspected to possibly leach harmful carcinogens

7. Assorted but usually polycarbonate – Bad – may contain leaching BPA.

Basically though 1 is the best 2 is ok....the other ones besides leaching problems are also the most succesible to oxygen permeability.

 

[Guest]

Ok...


First off, any and all commercial water bottles, as stated,are stamped "food grade".
That should be a given.


Second off,nearly all plastics are porous. This goes without saying and while that makes a difference in cleaning, none to my knowledge,stamped "food grade"are designed to allow air (O2) to pass through them.
If that were the case, that would destroyANY "food grade" product inside them making the labeling erroneous don't you think.


Third, if that were indeed true, then your fermentation bucket that I assume is also "food grade" plastic would be a badmaterial to ferment in as wellwouldn't it.


Now. To cut out additionalquick knowledgablereplies, as stated in my post, I'd like to hear from someone that has done this.
Oh and one more thing. Please note before replying that the post says fermentation under airlock, not aging under sealed cork so please don't post to me about pressure issues.
I't's understood that plastic will expand while glass will not.

 

[hannabarn]

First , I would say look at Tepe's post above!! Then if you don't agree and still want to use the water bottles, go ahead and use them! Your motto is " Do, or do not. There is no try"! So DO, It's your wine!

 

[Brewgrrrl]

You might be hard pressed (no pun intended) to find someone on the forum who's actually tried water bottles. My understanding is that, in addition to possible oxidation, most plastics will end up transferring an unwanted flavor to anything stored in them for more than a few days. There is more information about Better Bottles here: http://www.better-bottle.com/that could clarify the difference between regular water bottles and what they have created. If you do try it, best of luck and please let us know how it worked out for you.

 

[Wade E]

Yes, actually there are many food grade plastics that are permeable and they actually make tanks for wine making that also do this just for the getting some 02 to your wine like a wine barrel does, ask Al Fulchino as he has a few of these. Im not hip on the water bottles though as they do give a taste to products stored in them and I can taste them when I drink out of a water cooler but I also can not taste it when drinking a soda out of any so i truly dont know what to think but I stray and use only glass myself.

 

[Guest]

Ahhh

 

[cpfan]

Handyman:


Wine oxidizes and goes bad. I have never heard of water oxidizing and going bad. Thus a container may be fine for water but not for wine.


Somepeople use the plastic water bottles for wine making, and are pleased with their results. I have not used one, and have no plans to use them.


I'm not sure what "commercial water bottles" in your original post means. Are these different from the standard water jugs for water coolers?


Re bungs....I used to run an HBS and sold bungs to folks using water jugs. Different jugs seemed to take a slightly different size bung. Unfortunately I cannot recall what was "normal". Plus some people like their bungs to sit high for easier removal (and easier to knock out accidentally), and others prefer a low fit (can be harder to grip to remove).


Steve

 

[intoxicating]

I only use 3 gallon carboys, since I mostly make smaller batches of fruit wine. I keep one of the 3 gallon water bottles to have something to rack to if all my carboys are full. It is fine to use a bucket for this, but the smaller opening of the water bottle means less chance of anything floating through the air and landing in my wine, and less chance to splash or slop. George recommended not to store in the water bottle, but it works fine for short term use.

How many of you use a solid bung for bulk aging? I thought everyone used air locks for bulk aging.

 

[smurfe]

I have used them for primary fermentation but never for secondary or bulk aging. I don't care about oxygen during primary fermentation, I do for secondary or bulk aging.

I can't remember the size of bung they use. I believe a 10 or 11. You would need to get an exact inside diameter and look at the chart on the stoppers page in the catalog. I looked at the chart and if it is indeed 2 inches it looks like a 2 inch would use a 10.5 or 11 stopper.

 

[Wade E]

I had the chance to grab 10 of them today and strayed! Just not worth it IMO!

 

[smurfe]

They aren't bad to have around. They are most handy for me when I am out of carboys and have to rack. I will rack to one of these, clean the carboy and rack back to glass. Much less oxygen exposure than racking to a bucket and then back to glass. A good, cheap go to in a pinch. Once again I will stress, I don't support them for long term use. I do know a few dudes around here that use them exclusively for beer and wine.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned which is the problem I would have using them long term are they are pretty flexible on the sides. With a rise and fall in barometric pressure the carboy is going to expand and contract. If you have an airlock attached it can and will spew the solution in it either out of the airlock or into your wine. You don't have a lot if issue during primary fermentation due to the pressure of the escaping CO2. If the wine has finished fermenting or is still, you don't have that protection of the pressure from the CO2 emission. I have had this happen with my Better Bottles that are approved for use and one reason I am not a super fan of them. The water cooler carboys are considerably more flexible than a Better Bottle as well. Glass or stainless steel is the way to go.

 

[bj4271]

Guesta,


I've used them both as primary/secondary fermenters & to age several batches of blueberry wine for as much as 6 mos & never had any ill effects.


Bruce

 

[rascalrider]

I've used water bottles with no ill effects, be warned they usually hold more than the 3 or 5 gallons as labeled so will have too much head space if not activly fermenting. I top off with inert gas rather than water down the wine

 

[OGrav]

If I didn't have a few carboys; I'd probably use them. They're lighter, cheaper,won't break as easily. Though being plastic, they also flex with all the problems that brings, harder to clean and get the smell out of, and easier to scratch. I'm sure the better bottle is "better" in all respects, probably a little stiffer. One piece of advice from someone that actually uses them is to keep them in a milk crate when filled, in order to move them around

 

[Rocky_Top]

I useda water bottle on my very first wine. I still have 6 bottles of 3 year old plastic cranberry wine.

I did learn that I do not want a better bottle. Every time I moved the thing it sucked the vodka out of the airlock. And I learned that if you use a better bottle you better use vodka. And I learned that vodka evaporates fast. I still have a lot to learn about glass and plan to keep it that way.

 

[Lucky Al]

I think they work great for transporting fresh Apple juice or grape juice to make wine with. I have a few 5 gal water bottles that I fill when buying the juice & seal them with plastic wrap. There is less of a chance of it spilling. I agree with the others as not to use them in place of a glass carboy but just as a temporary device to hold the juice. I have also picked up 3 gal food grade buckets at the local bakery that contained icing. They also work nice for transporting juice.

Al

 

[rascalrider]

yes the better bottle does have some flex but for some of us older folks the lite weight is worth it. I have a nylon harness to lift them and a 2 wheeler, like you would use for luggage, that reduces that problem

 

[Runningwolf]

yes the better bottle does have some flex but for some of us older folks the lite weight is worth it. I have a nylon harness to lift them and a 2 wheeler, like you would use for luggage, that reduces that problem

I personally do not like them due to the issues of moving them and not being able to vacuum rack with them. I do like the fact the weigh less and are non breakable. So if I was going to use them I would make sure I had enough plastic milk crates to keep them in for moving them around. I wonder if the plastic breaks down after time?