What is time..

[dangerdave]

Floandgary: "Trees DO make noise even if there is no one there to hear it!! Simply by the laws of physics as to exactly what noise (sound) is.."

I always love this one! Sound is defined as, "the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium." So, if no one is there to sense it, then it is not sound, merely mechanical vibration of the medium.

Dave...<takes a spit of wine>

Careful fellas, getting awefully close to a religious discussion. That could get ugly.

 

[corinth]

What is time

DangerDave,
"Careful fellas, getting awfully close to a religious discussion. That could get ugly"

I hope not Dave as that was not my intent. If Lemaitre has correlated his theory to his religious beliefs, I would not have included him in this thread. I do appreciate your concern.

Corinth

 

[dangerdave]

Just trying to lighten it up a bit.

 

[sour_grapes]

Careful fellas, getting awfully close to a religious discussion. That could get ugly.

I honestly thought Dave was referring to his own "if a tree falls in the forest" riddle.

 

[DoodleBug]

I want to just interject my wrench into the BIG bang theory.
Maybe it is just a small bang within something larger containing a multitude of bangs some of which may be bigger.
That being said isn't time just a created unit of measure based on perception.
( I have got to stop consuming shoe polish. )

 

[JohnT]

I want to just interject my wrench into the BIG bang theory.
Maybe it is just a small bang within something larger containing a multitude of bangs some of which may be bigger.
That being said isn't time just a created unit of measure based on perception.
( I have got to stop consuming shoe polish. )

That is the all over question.

 

[dangerdave]

Everything we sense is a perception. All that we perceive is based on and restricted by our limited perceptions. Now follow my thinking, if you will...

Things that we cannot normally perceive (with our five senses) must be converted into a perceivable form. We have sophisticated telescopes and advanced software programs that convert wavelengths of light from distant stars---that we cannot normally see---into visible colors on a screen so that we can study them.

Now, don't let your head explode, but our chronographs are just devices we use to view or measure the passage of time---which is real and quantifiable---but unable to be perceived by us otherwise. We can messure time from the very instant the Big Bang occurred. Was the advent of time a result of the Big Bang, or the cause? Did the Big Bang require time, or did it initiate time?

Oh! My brains!

 

[sour_grapes]

Course: Physics 534: Cosmology.
Final Exam.
Question 1: Define the Universe. Give three examples.

 

[sour_grapes]

I want to just interject my wrench into the BIG bang theory.
Maybe it is just a small bang within something larger containing a multitude of bangs some of which may be bigger.

Here is a bit of trouble with this. As best we know, at the time of the Big Bang, there was a singularity in space-time, from which all the present universe sprang. Nothing that is outside of the resultant space-time is accessible to our universe, and hence, has no meaning in our universe.

Here is how Stephen Hawking describes the conventional viewpoint about the Big Bang. (As I stated in an earlier post in this thread, he himself holds a somewhat different viewpoint.)

At this time, the Big Bang, all the matter in the universe, would have been on top of itself. The density would have been infinite. It would have been what is called, a singularity. At a singularity, all the laws of physics would have broken down. This means that the state of the universe, after the Big Bang, will not depend on anything that may have happened before, because the deterministic laws that govern the universe will break down in the Big Bang. The universe will evolve from the Big Bang, completely independently of what it was like before. Even the amount of matter in the universe, can be different to what it was before the Big Bang, as the Law of Conservation of Matter, will break down at the Big Bang.

Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory, and say that time began at the Big Bang. Events before the Big Bang, are simply not defined, because there's no way one could measure what happened at them. This kind of beginning to the universe, and of time itself, is very different to the beginnings that had been considered earlier. These had to be imposed on the universe by some external agency. There is no dynamical reason why the motion of bodies in the solar system can not be extrapolated back in time, far beyond four thousand and four BC, the date for the creation of the universe, according to the book of Genesis. Thus it would require the direct intervention of God, if the universe began at that date. By contrast, the Big Bang is a beginning that is required by the dynamical laws that govern the universe. It is therefore intrinsic to the universe, and is not imposed on it from outside.

 

[JohnT]

Everything we sense is a perception. All that we perceive is based on and restricted by our limited perceptions. Now follow my thinking, if you will...

Things that we cannot normally perceive (with our five senses) must be converted into a perceivable form. We have sophisticated telescopes and advanced software programs that convert wavelengths of light from distant stars---that we cannot normally see---into visible colors on a screen so that we can study them.

Now, don't let your head explode, but our chronographs are just devices we use to view or measure the passage of time---which is real and quantifiable---but unable to be perceived by us otherwise. We can messure time from the very instant the Big Bang occurred. Was the advent of time a result of the Big Bang, or the cause? Did the Big Bang require time, or did it initiate time?

Oh! My brains!

Dave,

It is times like this when I find another glass of wine really helps!

 

[JohnT]

For the folks that remember Carl Sagan (Mr. "Billions and Billions"), here is the very first line he uttered in his groundbreaking TV series "Cosmos"..

“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”

For the folks that like apple pie, here is his recipe. I did make this pie and it was great! I found that getting that first ingredient was a bit hard, so I just reused the universe that I already had. Making the pie got a lot easier at the next step.

 

[jamesngalveston]

johnt , i loved the question,,,did not felt i wasted anytime, thanks..

 

[Floandgary]

Just think,,,, if it weren't for WINE, This thread would be on some other forum (or likely it is!!). Whilst on the subject of billions and billions, I'm sure we are all trying to wrap our brain cells around the stats for the Comet ISON. Quite the event..

 

[dangerdave]

I'm very much looking forward to Ison. I remember Hale-Bopp a few years back. We were camping in the mountains of WV during the peak viewing time, sitting around the campfire, just watching the comet.

 

[JohnT]

I'm very much looking forward to Ison. I remember Hale-Bopp a few years back. We were camping in the mountains of WV during the peak viewing time, sitting around the campfire, just watching the comet.

Wasn't hale-bopp in actuality the "heaven's gate mother ship"?

 

[dangerdave]

The mother ship was supposed to have hidden behind the comet---or so goes the tale.

I've got the Comet Watch app for iPhone. Very cool!