What makes a kit cheap or expensive

[sampvt]

After reading this post, you will no doubt realise I am a newbee, lol.

The questions I post are gradually getting more relevant, so please bear with me. In saying that, I am really happy and surprised with the response I have received on all my posts, hence my latest question.

If the answer is the quality of the ingredients, which it probably is, then are there any of you out there who have experience in the tweaking of a wine kit.

What I mean is that if one kit brews out ok and give the relevant alchohol content required, but is lacking in taste, then why don't we irk that side of things by adding a bit of help prior to setting it off on its journey by adding something that will enhance its flavour.

I ask this question because I have brewed up 2 kits now and both acted pretty much like the instructions said but both seemed to be lacking in flavour and both had generalised ''Kit taste'' which I have been told, WILL IMPROVE WITH AGE, etc etc etc.

I guess my question, after dancing round the houses and trying not to sound too inept is..........does anyone add stuff to their ingredients and why or what betterment does the finished kit acquire. Its probably a question most of you play with but in my case, I am getting the vibes that the cheaper wine kits are cheaper because of the quality of the juice, so why not add a little extra, just to aid and assist it on its way.

I am posting this question because I know there must be some of you out there that have your own special little quirks and I hope you might be willing to share these with us, many thanks.

 

[Angelina]

Hi Sampvt, Everything is subject to opinion so here is a little of mine. When I first started making wine I made everything to the letter for fear of messing it up and also a lack of experience. As I got comfortable and confident I started experimenting with cheap kits just to see what I could accomplish. I did a lot of reading on here, asked questions and took notes. I do believe that you can improve on cheap kits and make a very worthy and drinkable kit. Now that said, yes there is a difference in the quality of a "cheap" kit and a genuine wine kit that is usually more expensive. For instance a cornucopia kit which is I would guess mostly is fruit juice sugar and the minimum amount of actual grapes verses a wine expert kit which I believe to be 100% grapes and may have grape skeins in it as well.
But at the end of the day, if you make a wine cheap or expensive wine, if it taste good and you like it, well done! I hope this helps remember there is a wealth of information here.

 

[Angelina]

Also there is a post titled. When good wines go bad, by Joe. It's a lot of reading but very educational. Some where it it he talks about the "tool box" I love my tool box! It has everything I need to enhance my wine if I think I need too. Some of the item's in my tool box include regular Raisins, golden raisins, extracts, oak chips, vannila beans, simple sugar, Orange, lemon, and lime skins soaking in everclear <--- thanks Joe things like that I may or may not use on any given kit to add layers of depth, body and flavour.

 

[Boatboy24]

Like Angelina said, it is all subject to opinion. I've made kits ranging from $45 to $150. None of them were terrible, but you most certainly get what you pay for. That being said, you can still tweak a kit, and many of us do. And you can take a low to mid range kit and make it a better. I've sampled some made by other members here and they are very good. But you won't take a $40 kit and make it as good as a $150 kit (IMHO). I do mostly high end kits now, but still tweak those with barrel aging, oak and tannins. I suggest you read through a few of the 'tweaker' posts. In reality, there is no end to what you can do to your own homemade wine. We are not subject to any of the rules of commercial winemaking, and we are making the wine for ourselves, friends and family. As long as it is enjoyable by them, it is a winner. Below are a few links to threads on tweaking. Happy reading.

Bzac tweaking post:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f84/bzac-kit-tweaking-post-31007/

When good wines go bad:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f6/when-good-wines-g-ne-bad-29481/

Thinking outside the box:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f84/thinking-outside-box-9155/ (many of the early posts on this one are specific to an almond wine, but it gets into general tweaking and has some very interesting ideas)

 

[bkisel]

My experience with kits is almost exclusively with the RJS VdV ($75.00.00) and WS ($125.00) lines. IMHO there isn't a $50.00 difference between the whites but is with the reds. However, I have tweaked two VdV kits to where, in my opinion, they measure closely to a more expensive kit. I've yet to have a dud with any of the RJS kits. I hear good thinks about other kits but with the exception of one MM kit have not tried any others.

Oh, to answer your question, in the case of RJS kits I'd say it is largely how concentrated the kit is that makes the price difference. The more concentrated (e.g. a 9L VdV vs. a more expensive 18L WS kit) the less costly the kit.

 

[sampvt]

Lets say that someone wanted to tweak a $50 kit, presumably the juice side of things, what additives would one add. Would we add say hi juice, extract of essence or even fresh squeezed fruit juice or the pulp. Only throwing those ideas out there just in case someone has done it.

 

[sour_grapes]

Sorry, what is "hi juice"?

I typically add powdered tannins to kits (but I typically do high-end kits).

Someone has already provided links to a long thread that discusses adding most of the very things you are asking about.

 

[DoctorCAD]

I almost always add tannins to kits. I bought some grape packs to add to my next kit, but cost-wise, its not worrh adding $22 worth of grapes to a $50 kit. Easier to spend $72 on a better kit.

 

[murphyaii]

improving the flavour

I have only made kit wines since i started in the last 6 months.

I only make white wines.

I tend to find the kit wines flavour is quite weak.

I always add tartaric acid into the bottles at bottling time and shake the bottle and voila you have a lovely bottle of wine instantly.

I tend to go for the magnum ultimate here in ireland.

 

[heatherd]

Lets say that someone wanted to tweak a $50 kit, presumably the juice side of things, what additives would one add. Would we add say hi juice, extract of essence or even fresh squeezed fruit juice or the pulp. Only throwing those ideas out there just in case someone has done it.

No clue what "hi juice" is.

The juice is really not what you'd tweak.

Taking a $50 kit and making it better would be done with the additions of things like grape skins, wood and/or enological tannins, zante currants, oak, grape concentrate, and so on.

If you click on the links in the @boatboy24 post, you'll find more info.

 

[joeswine]

Tweaking kits is only knowing what your base wine's profile is and take it from there..just that simple.Knowing the difference between a partner ship in the wine's profile and a background taste makes all the difference.How,what ,when and where.

 

[Scooter68]

Remember that if that kit contains about 20% grape juice and the rest is apple and/or pear juice or sugar and water, you can only do so much with it. Hopefully the kits give you some info that is honest about it. Like the juices at the store - Ocean Spray "100% Juice" - But while the label says Cranberry, Blueberry, Blackberry, a reading of the labels shows contents like Apple, Pear, Cranberry, Blueberry Blackberry - In order of how much is there.

I say that to suggest that if the kit is front loaded with cheaper juices or sugar water, it's pretty hard to overcom that and get a wine with much depth and complexity. Just as you can by a kit car that looks like a Ford GT40 or a Porsche but the running gear is say a VW beetle.

 

[joeswine]

Well ,have you ever tried tweaking a kit? Most all wine kits are some form of concentrate depending on the cost of the kit.If you look in the past winners of commerical wine makers at $2 buck Chuck and one of the latest another $3 dollar wine it's all about finished taste,you can make a decent white or red everyday wine out of cheaper kits.All you need to do is read the thread (Tweaking cheap wine kits) . I be done every class of wine kit out there and at every price range and I still believe that like a good sauce it's the base and the spices you add into it to build the structure and texture into the finished product, Really.

 

[dcbrown73]

I've always heard that the price of a kit in many ways is dependent on how much water you have to add to it. (the more water you have to add, the thinner the resulting wine ends up being, well unless you tweak them ala Joeswine) I've pretty much only made the highest end kits as I wanted the best results.

So the Eclipse kits you add about two gallons of water too. I've heard the cheaper kits you must add even more water too. (ie, they are far more concentrated and require more water to reach six gallons)

I'm sure the quality of the grapes matter too in many cases.

 

[Scooter68]

... I still believe that like a good sauce it's the base and the spices you add into it to build the structure and texture into the finished product, Really.

I would agree - If the base juice is good then you can make adjustments - conversely if that juice is a combination of say grapes, apples and pears, then the issue become much more complicated, That's why I will not purchase the brand of Fruit Juice Wine Concentrates that contain multiple varieties of fruits (Apples, Pear and Grape) along with the fruit listed on the label. If I purchase a Zinfandel wine kit I would expect it to be 100% Zinfandel grapes not a mix of grape varieties. So far I have simply stayed with my homegrown fruits, fruit stand/orchard fruit, or 100% single variety fruit bases for my wines.

 

[joeswine]

Here's how it works if you adjust the volume of water to a cheap wine kit then you increase the amount of concentration and add to the ABV. Level at the same time. I personally don't know or think that any wine kit say a Cabernet would contain apple or pear juices rather then a co-op of the same grape varital blended and concentrated down . The cheaper the kit the less to water volume if you get use to playing with your drink the more you understand the base and what you can do with it no matter what the price point.