when good wines gone bad

[joeswine]

Cabernet in review with black corthinian grapes





GO BACK AND REVIEW THE CABERNET PROCESS.POST # 679

 

[joeswine]

Cabernet in review with black corthinian grapes

BLACK CORTHINIAN GRAPES AND CABERNET ARE A AWESOME COMBINATION TOGETHER FOLLOW THE PROCESS STRAIGHT ON THROUGHT...............
A Grape that isn't a Grape but is a Grape

If you've ever had currant buns, or any other baked product with "currants" in them, you, like 99.9% of the public, thought the "currants" were the little red fruits that grow on bushes. Nope.
The dried "currants" used in baking are actually a true raisin, a dried grape. Called "currants" because one of the names of the grape they come FROM is "ZANTES Currant" also known as Black Corinth, and many other names, THIS is the variety dried INTO "currants" that are used in baking.
Black Corinth is the name you will usually find it under in America, though in recent years it has become known as "the Champagne grape" due to advertising by a produce dealer who specializes in it. Ironically, there is an old American grape called "Champagne" that is a very coarse, rough tasting labrusca grape of low quality, about as far FROM Champagne as you could get.
Black Corinth is a very odd grape in many ways. In it's natural state, the clusters have very few berries and they are hardly bigger than pinheads. In wild grapes, the sexes are in separate vines, male flowers on one, female flowers on another. This is true even in wild Vitis vinifera, the classic grape of commerce. Black Corinth is an "almost male" in that the flowers have well developed anthers, and very tiny ovaries, probably representing a first step towards evolution of a perfect flowered grape. Hence, when it does set fruit, there are only a few per cluster and the berries are tiny and seedless. However, the variety was doubtless kept as a source of pollen so that the female flowered varieties would set full crops.
How did Black Corinth come to be used at all, if the berries are so few and tiny?
It's a very old variety, probably Greek, and the story goes that a donkey was tied to a vine of it and the animal started going around the vine until the halter rope rubbed the bark off. Instead of dying, the vine healed the wound and the grapes, which were minuscule in other years, were large enough to eat after the vine was girdled. There is certainly a grain of truth in the fable as girdling was a standard practice in increasing the set and size of seedless grapes until the discovery of the plant hormone gibberellic acid and it's ability to do the same thing with less labor.
Girdling, or hormone treatment, causes the clusters to set full crops, though the berries are still tiny. Because the stems also remain tiny, the berries can be eaten with the stems on. This makes the variety seem very dainty and rather glamorous (thanks especially to articles showing frosted clusters of them with glasses of champagne - hence the "champagne" grape) and home growers who have seen this decide that Black Corinth would be fun to grow., which is too bad because it's NOT a home grower's grape.
First, of over 200 varieties in my collection, it is the most susceptible to powdery mildew. As pure Vitis vinifera, it is also completely susceptible to all the other diseases of grapes - downy mildew, black rot, etc. And since it comes FROM such a mild country, it can't be counted on as being hardy to much more than 0°F. But more than anything else, unless the vine is treated with hormone at bloom time, or girdled, the berries are minuscule and the clusters are straggly. So while it looked romantic in the magazine, it's NOT worth the work for most homeowners. Buy the fruit in the store, if you must, but don't bother trying to grow it.
Black Corinth - the grape that's a Currant (Zante) that's a grape.
THE BEAUTY BEHIND THIS PROFILE IS THAT IT WAS A NATURAL FIT THE EARTHY COMPLETE TEXTURE OF THE GRAPE COMBINED WITH THE STABLENESS OF THE CABERNET MADE IT A GOOD FIT ,YOU COULD ALSO DO THIS WITH ZANTE CURRENTS AND I THINK I WILL TRY IT,HOW ABOUT YOU?

NOW WE WAIT TO CLEAR AND BOTTLE............STAY THE COURSE...........

 

[LoneStarLori]

Joe, I'm getting ready to start a Mezza Luna Red with dried Zante Currants. Once again, you got my wheels turning.

 

[joeswine]

Mazza luna red

It's a open palate,zantes will work well concord grapes will also do but just a small bunch, THIS WOULD ACT AS YOUR GRAPE PAC but what ever you do i would buy a good bottle of merlot for topping off and add that would add a depth to the mix ,picture it a sauce and your ready to add the main ingredients,,,,tannins ,zantes,cab,got it!

 

[LoneStarLori]

Yep, got it. Sounds delicious already.
to be sure, that's Merlot for topping, right? Not "tannins ,zantes,cab,got it!" as in your last line above.

 

[joeswine]

Adding to the mix

Where did the not come in ,did i miss something?

 

[kryptonitewine]

Lori, Joe's saying - do them all!

add the tannin and zante's to the secondary. When you need to top up use the Cab. This sounds great. I've always used a cheap wine for topping up thinking that it was a small amount and wouldn't add any flavor. Silly silly me. lesson learned.

Thanks Joe.

 

[peaches9324]

love the cat label Joe. I think presentation adds to the mystique of the wine.

 

[LoneStarLori]

It's a open palate,zantes will work well concord grapes will also do but just a small bunch, THIS WOULD ACT AS YOUR GRAPE PAC but what ever you do i would buy a good bottle of merlot for topping off and add that would add a depth to the mix ,picture it a sauce and your ready to add the main ingredients,,,,tannins ,zantes,cab,got it!

I know I can be dense, but... it's just a little confusing.

I'll buy both and drink one. Or drink both and buy more.

 

[kryptonitewine]

drink both and buy more.

That sounds like a good plan!!! Keep us posted on what you do. You planning on a photo post like you did with the Sang? That was great!

I noticed you had two different kits in your photo. You doing both the same, or changing them up a little bit? Maybe do one with the zante's the other with concord? Just a thought.

 

[joeswine]

Adding to the mix

THE SMALL BUNCH OF CONCORD WILL ACT AS YOUR GRAPE PAC,USE THEM AS NORMAL. THE ZANTES THEN MOVE TO THE SECONDARY AND ACT AS INFUSER AND YOUR COMPLEX INGREDIENT, NEXT BRING UP THE SG TO 1.10 THIS WILL BALANCE OUT THE WINE IN THE END, IF YOU CHOSE NOT TO USE THE HANDFUL OF CONCORDS,THEN JUST USE THE ZANTES IN THE SECONDARY ALONG WITH THE TANNINS,ALWAYS LOOK AT IT THIS WAY:

1ST. THE BASE WINE AT 1.10 SG
2ND. THE SPICES
3RD.THEN THE TANNINS
NOW THE SAUCE IS COMPLETED AND NOW YOU HAVE TO ACHIEVE BALANCE IN WHAT EVER YOU BLEND.............................. ITS NOT COMPLICATED YOU'VE ALREADY DONE IT WITH THE SANGIOVESE I'VE JUST ADDED TWO MORE STEPS TO THAT END,FOR WHAT YOU HAVE IS A WINE BASE HEAVY IN CONCENTRATE ,PLENTY OF ROOM TO WORK..JJUST TAKE YOUR TIME AND PLAN IT OUT............................USING THE CAB AS A TOP OFF ELEMENT WILL ONLY ENHANCE THE TEXTURE AND MOUTHFEEL..TRUST ME...

 

[LoneStarLori]

That sounds like a good plan!!! Keep us posted on what you do. You planning on a photo post like you did with the Sang? That was great!

I noticed you had two different kits in your photo. You doing both the same, or changing them up a little bit? Maybe do one with the zante's the other with concord? Just a thought.

The other kit is a Pinot Blanc. I will most likely use golden raisins but I'm open to ideas and suggestions. Any thoughts? I want to keep it kind of dry.

And yes, pictures are in the works. Thats the way I manage to keep notes. I go by the date the picture was taken if I forget to write something down.

 

[joeswine]

Blackberry pino nior

blackberry pino noir process from begging to fpac application..................follow the process and be sure to check out the simple fpac method..

Blackberry Pinot Noir​

We purchased a medium grade kit (~$80-$90) Pinot Noir Winexpert Kit. We wanted Blackberry Pinot Noir so we purchased 1.5 lbs. of blackberries to go with this.

The Winexpert box includes the following:
· Large bag of juice
· 1 Pack of Redstar Champagne Yeast
· 2 Chaptalisation Packs (bags of sugar)
· Package #2 (bentonite)
· Package #3 (Metabisulphite)
· Package #4 (Sorbate)
· Package #5 (Chitosan-(Fining Agent)
· Mesh Straining Bag
· 1 package of oak chips
Just for reference, I’m sure everyone knows by now if they have been following the posts, that you will need certain equipment to make this kit. For the newbies, I’m going to put it below so you know what you need:
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity)
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel)
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Siphon rod and hose
· Carboy (6 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend Onestep or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing
· 30 wine bottles, thirty corks , thirty seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)
The Process:
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself. J
· Add half gallon of warm water to the primary fermenting bucket with the bentonite packet and stir until dissolved.
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse out the bag with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all.
· Top up your bucket until you reach a 6 gallons. (I marked my primary before hand so I know where 6 gallons are.)
· Now, we took our SG reading and it was 1.08. We added simple syrup to bring the SG up to 1.10. Our logic is: We wanted at least 12% alc. At the finish because we know the blackberries are going to pick up the flavor at the bottom end. (The blackberries will overpower the flavor if we didn’t have a higher alch. Content. It would just be juice with not much alch.. This is how we do it, I’m sure others have their own opinion.)
· Next, we added ½ tsp of oak tannin.
· Then we added the oak chips and prinkled yeast on top of that. Don’t stir, just let it sit.
· Then here comes the blackberry. We created a homemade F-pak out of blackberries. (We are going to write up a separate tutorial for this.) Note: an F-pack doesn’t always have to go at the end of the wine, you can add them to the beginning. An F-pack in the beginning will blend well with the wine but will not usually over-power the taste of the wine. If you add it at the end, the predominant taste of your wine will be the F-pak.
· We added the the F-pak to a mesh bag and tied it in a knot then added it to the primary.
· We added bellie-bands because it’s chilly in the winter. It’s about 64 degrees in here. After that, I hung my tag on the side, put a towel on top. And we wait. J


kate and kito are co-opting this kit together.........friends and wine making go hand and hand

​

 

[joeswine]

Blackberry pino nior

making the fpac............follow simple and easy.........................

do you see the pic with the lid on? that's there so that I can trap some of the berry liquid instead of just letting it evaporate this helped to build up the volume of juice ,got it !
a slow and gentle pressure on the berries as their cooking allows them to break down with destroying them ,can you see them turn color as they cook, this is a simple and easy way to create flavor in your wine or even if I was going to make a blackberry wine this fpac I would have added in the secondary or cold pressed 1 month before bottling ,that's a different story for later.

 

[joeswine]

Blackberry pino nior

1ST racking.................NOTES:PICTURE 1 WAS THE FPAC WHEN WE STARTED OUR FERMENTATION,NOTICE THE RESIDUE WHEN WE FINISHED ,AND THE COLOR IS BLACK AS INK BUT THE SMELL IS STILL THERE,THIS IS A GOOD KIT TO WORK WITH .

 

[LoneStarLori]

Dang it joe! This just looks so good. I have been 'considering" a pinot nior and you have made me bump it to the top of the list.
We are coming up on blackberry season here and it moses perfect sense to me. I think" I'll do at $70-80 kit. any suggestions?

 

[joeswine]

Review the process

ANY KIT WOULD WORK WITH THE WORK WE DO TO THEM THIS KIT I PICKED WAS $80...A PIECE BUT ,YOU KNOW HOW TO WORK THE PROCESS PLAN YOUR WORK, THEN WORK YOUR PLAN..AND YES WITH TIME THIS PROFILE BECOME EXCELLENT..

 

[joeswine]

Blackberry pino nior

BLACKBERRY PINO NIOR PROCESS...ALONG

Blackberry Pinot Noir​

​

We purchased a medium grade kit (~$80-$90) Pinot Noir Winexpert Kit. We wanted Blackberry Pinot Noir so we purchased 1.5 lbs. of blackberries to go with this.

The Winexpert box includes the following:
· Large bag of juice
· 1 Pack of Red start Champagne Yeast
· 2 Capitalization Packs (bags of sugar)
· Package #2 (bentonite)
· Package #3 (Metabisulphite)
· Package #4 (Sorbate)
· Package #5 (Chitosan-(Fining Agent)
· Mesh Straining Bag
· 1 package of oak chips
Just for reference, I’m sure everyone knows by now if they have been following the posts, that you will need certain equipment to make this kit. For the newbies, I’m going to put it below so you know what you need:
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity)
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel)
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Siphon rod and hose
· Carboy (6 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend ONE STEP or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphate Powder for sanitizing
· 30 wine bottles, thirty corks , thirty seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)
The Process:
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself. J
· Add half gallon of warm water to the primary fermenting bucket with the bentonite packet and stir until dissolved.
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse out the bag with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all.
· Top up your bucket until you reach a 6 gallons. (I marked my primary before hand so I know where 6 gallons are.)
· Now, we took our SG reading and it was 1.08. We added simple syrup to bring the SG up to 1.10. Our logic is: We wanted at least 12% alc. At the finish because we know the blackberries are going to pick up the flavor at the bottom end. (The blackberries will overpower the flavor if we didn’t have a higher alch. Content. It would just be juice with not much alch.. This is how we do it, I’m sure others have their own opinion.)
· Next, we added ½ tsp of oak tannin.
· Then we added the oak chips and sprinkled yeast on top of that. Don’t stir, just let it sit.
· Then here comes the blackberry. We created a homemade F-pak out of blackberries. (We are going to write up a separate tutorial for this.) Note: an F-pack doesn’t always have to go at the end of the wine, you can add them to the beginning. An F-pack in the beginning will blend well with the wine but will not usually over-power the taste of the wine. If you add it at the end, the predominant taste of your wine will be the FPAC
· We added the FPAC to a mesh bag and tied it in a knot then added it to the primary.
· We added bellie-bands because it’s chill
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Siphon rod and hose
· Carboy (6 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend Onestep or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing
· 30 wine bottles, thirty corks , thirty seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)
The Process:
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself. J
· Add half gallon of warm water to the primary fermenting bucket with the bentonite packet and stir until dissolved.
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse out the bag with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all.
· Top up your bucket until you reach a 6 gallons. (I marked my primary before hand so I know where 6 gallons are.)
· Now, we took our SG reading and it was 1.08. We added simple syrup to bring the SG up to 1.10. Our logic is: We wanted at least 12% alc. At the finish because we know the blackberries are going to pick up the flavor at the bottom end. (The blackberries will overpower the flavor if we didn’t have a higher alch. Content. It would just be juice with not much alch.. This is how we do it, I’m sure others have their own opinion.)
· Next, we added ½ tsp of oak tannin.
· Then we added the oak chips and prinkled yeast on top of that. Don’t stir, just let it sit.
· Then here comes the blackberry. We created a homemade F-pak out of blackberries. (We are going to write up a separate tutorial for this.) Note: an F-pack doesn’t always have to go at the end of the wine, you can add them to the beginning. An F-pack in the beginning will blend well with the wine but will not usually over-power the taste of the wine. If you add it at the end, the predominant taste of your wine will be the F-pak.
· We added the te F-pak to a mesh bag and tied it in a knot then added it to the primary.
· We added bellie-bands because it’s chilly in the winter. It’s about 64 degrees in here. After that, I hung my tag on the side, put a towel on top. And we wait. J

We are looking forward to our next tutorial now that this one is complete. Please give us feedback and recommendations of what type of wine you would like to learn how to make.
WITH THE PRy in the winter. It’s about 64 degrees in here. After that, I hung my tag on the side, put a towel on top. And we wait. J

​

​

 

[joeswine]

BLACKBERRY PINO CONTINUED.................FOLLOW.. MAKING A FPAC IS A SIMPLE AND FUN ITEM TO HAVE IN YOUR TOOL BOX OF KNOWLEDGE DEPENDING OF WHAT YOU WANT YOUR WINE YOUR WINE TO TURN OUT LIKE OR A BETTER TERM IS (TASTE PROFILE) MASTER OR SUBORDINATE, YOU CAN ADD FLAVOR YOU JUST NEED TO" THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX"...........................
YOU NEED TO BE GENTILE WITH THE FRUIT AND DO YOU SEE THE PIC WITH THE LID THAT'S TO CAPTURE THE CONDENSATE OF JUICE VAPOR ,PUTTING IT BACK INTO THE COMBINE TO BUILD UP JUICE WITH OUT ADDING WATER ALSO ,WHEN WE STARTED THE COOKING PROCESS I ADDED 1 CUP OF CABERNET SAUVIGNON AS A LIQUEFIER TO START THE PROCESS,INSTEAD OF WATER.ONCE COOLED DOWN PLACE INTO A PAINTERS BAG AND ALLOWED NATURE TO TAKE IT'S COURSE.
I WANT TO TAKE A LINE AND SAY THANK YOU FOR THE CLOSE TO 800 PM'S I HAVE RECEIVED FROM THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE JOURNEYED WITH ME AND MY OFF THE WALL METHODS AND TO THOSE WHO HAVE BENEFITED BY THEM AND THANKS TO THE MOD'S FOR THEIR PATIENTS AND ALLOWING ME TO RAMBLE.

 

[joeswine]

finish product

finished product....................this was a fun project from start to finish and so far the taste results they will be outstanding, sometimes you have to look around you and you'll find some great fruits and grapes at different times of the season ,the black Corinthians package was one of those finds, the blackberry pino nior will be outstanding and a competitor in short order..have fun with this hobby and think outside the box.....................................................................................