when good wines gone bad

[joeswine]

Blending and Why i do it

This thread is from me to you and really intended for the home winemaker and strictly speaking this gem could be discussed for a long time,but i would like to say first.is why?

why do we blend ?
whatare the rules ?
who are the players ?
what am i trying to achieve?

In the beginning it was all trial and error,had a wine not much on taste ,or depth but- ab. was good and color was fine...what to do?

what are the rules/ first if a wine has turned out very badly/ex.smells like out soaks or turpentine ..trash it.

second understand the basic structure of the wine andespecially the type your making at the time,ask yourself,what should this wine be in its finished state,IS IT?if you don't know what its characteristic are findout

before moving on

and lastly what do i need to do to correct thiscan blending do the trick?

There are things to consider,say you have a merlo what would you blend it with,as a rule you would blend it with a wine of similar overtones,like a merlo to a cab,,wine of similar charistics in body taste and texture,unto them selves stable wines yet together even stronger,another good example is a super tuscan,combinations of three or even four italian grapes blended to balance each other out with sugar and tannins and aciditY.


but hay I'm not at that level I blend because its fun and opens up a whole different avenues of insight,taking a chardonnay andblending it with a pinot grigiothen tweaking it afterward....now thats wine making.



basic rule know what your wine characteristicsshouldbe,don' try to out think your wine it won't happen,know that most grape wines are filler wines and then THERE'Sthose that stand alone....no the basis structure of the body of wine is key and then there's the most important factor<<<YOUR TASTE BUDS,,,keeping notes is very important something i selddom do

i like to wing it...

I have taken over the last 10years many different dirrections in this passion called wine making but blending fruit wines to grape wines has been my greatestadventure and thats were will start..........

remember the rules



to be continued

 

[joeswine]

LETS GET STARTED

I GUESS THE BEST REASON I HAD TO BLEND IS WHEN I MADE A RASS BERRY WINE THAT WAS GREAT AND I STARTED TO WIN RIBBONS WITH IT AT THE SAME TIME I HAD A SHAZAR THAT WAS VERY GOOD AND I BEGAN TO THINK WHAT IF I PUT THE TWO TOGETHER HOW WOULD THEY COMPLEMENT EACH OTHER OR WOULD ONE OVER SHADOW THE OTHER,I READ ABOUT PARSONS SQUIRE (REMEMBER I LIKE TO WING IT) WELL THAT WENT RIGHT OVER MY HEAD ANYWAY, ON WARD AND UP WARD..
IF YOU TAKE A LOOK OR EVEN BETTER YET LISTEN TO A COMBONATION RINGS,RASS


BERRY SHIRAZIT JUST SOUNDS GOOD,COFFEE PORT ,GET IT ,WELL THATS HOW IGET MY IDEAS OR IF I SEE A KIT WITH A GREAT SOUNDING NAME ,THATS THE NEXT TARGET,,KIT WINE MANUFACTURES HAVE COME A LONG WAY IN PERFECTING THE KITS,ANYWAY,I GOT SIDE TRACKED,BACK TO HOW TO, AND I WAS QUITE SATISFIED, THE BLENDING BEGAN,REMEMBER THE RULES,THIS WASN'T A BLEND FOR CORRECTION IT WAS A BLEND FOR A NEW PROFILE IN TASTE,KNOWING THE CHARIS TICS OF BOTH WINES AND DECIDING THAT I NEED TO CREATE A BALANCE BETWEEN BOTH .

SHIRAZ/ FRUIT FORWARD AND BRIGHT WITHGOOD/ ABV. COUNTERPART /RASS BERRY ,SHARP AND RICH IN BOTH BODY AND FLAVOR,KEEPING THE BALANCE WAS GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE,


STEP ONE PREPARED MY WORK STATION WITH MIXING GLASSES AND PEN AND PAPER,ME ANDLUCILLE SETTLED IN TO MAKE A BLEND AFTER MIXING AND BLENDING IN THE GLASS WE FOUND A GOOD BALANCE AND THEN PROCEEDED TO EX PAIN THE VOLUME.......TWO HRS INTO IT WE HAD IT ONE BOTTLES WORTH OR RASS BERRY SHARAZ...NOW TO TRANSLATE THAT INTO QUANTITY THAT WE COULD RELATE TO ..AFTER ALL THE MATH IT BOILED DOWN TO 35% RASS BERRY 65% SHARAZA..THE PARTNERS WERE IN HARMONY WITH EACH OTHER,WHEN YOU TOOK A SIP OF THE WINE THE FIRST ITEM TO TOUCH YOUR BUDS WAS THE RASS BERRY RICH AND DEEPFOLLOWED UP BY THESMOOTH AND FRUIT FORWARD TASTE OF THE SHARAZA..I STILL HAVE SOME BOTTLES OF THESEAND THEY ARE A REMINISCENCE OF WHAT YOU CAN DO WHEN YOU KNOW YOUR PLAYERS AND KNOW WHAT YOUR TRYING TO ACHIEVE....THIS IS A CASE OF TWO GOOD WINES BEING BLENDED..BUT WHAT IF YOU HAD A GOOD WINE AND A NOT SO STRONG WINE.

ENTER MY CHARDONNAY .....NEXT TIME

REMEMBER THE RULES

 

[joeswine]

lost my last post

oh well my chardonnay wasn't great but wasn't bad either but i could tell it was lacking something,so i went on a quest to see what a chardonnay should finish like,low and behold was missing a touch of oak and not much on nose,wire to go from there did the research and came up with sauvignon blanc,which main charistics of herbal and grassy notes was what i needed,to over come my short fall,after buying 6 gallons and processing it the second season of wine making had appeared and it was time to blend all had time to macerate and age ,time to taste test this time i went the opposite way 65% SAVIGNON AND 35%this then gave me the balance and the product i wanted to achieve,I had to take the time to no the players and regroup,.

NOW HOW EVER IF I HAD TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN i WOULD TAKE THE CHARDONNAY and add in the primary french oak at least a cup,in the secondary the zest of 2 grapefruits and powered oak and again one month before bottling zest and oak if need ..that's the difference in then and now,thinking outside the box..

getting to know the partners

 

[tonyt]

. . . did the research and came up with sauvignon blanc,which main charistics of herbal and grassy notes was what i needed

After I read this I was scared to continue, I just knew you were going to add a cup of fresh mowed grass. </font>

 

[joeswine]

good refuge,

..ha but it works!

 

[joeswine]

majors and minors

Getting to know you getting to no all about you ..remember that song ...stands to reason getting to no compatible partners in the industry are....

MAJOR............MINO


CAB .............MER
ZINFIMDEL......VIOGNIER
SAGIOVESE....CAB/MERLO
PINO NOIR...GRENACHE..ZIN
CHARD............SEMILLON
SAUVIGNON'S BLANC......
VIOGNIER............ROUSSANNE
RIESLING.......MUSCAT..

THERE ARE MORE I'm SURE BUT KNOWING WHAT EACH BRINGS TO THE DANCE its own tallents.....SEE YOU MONDAY//

 

[joeswine]

Witch way did the berries go

mY FAVORIET PARTNER IN BLENDING IS BERRIES,THEY JUST SEAM TO FIT ,WEATHER IT BE WITH A PINONOR OR A VIOGINER,FRUITED WINES ARE GREAT AND THE MILEAGE THATTHE WINE INDUSTRY IS GETTING OFF THEM IS TREMENDOUS,JUST TAKE A LOOK AT ALL THE BLENDS THAT ARE AT YOUR DESPOSAL,EVERY GREAT COMDONATION UNDER HE SUN YOU CAN IMAGINE IS OUT THERE and youcan make them your self once you learn to master the art of fruit wine making.


Its really not hard just takes time you can't rush the work ,first you need a plan what fruit o I want to make,lets do my favorite raspberry's,how much fresh or frozen?




rule of thumb 5 to 6 lbs. per gallon,sounds like a lot ,not really,what type do I get fresh is always best but make sure you fruit is tasty not just colorful,its the taste you want,second after you get them let them get a little ripper,,.




have all your tools and vessels sanitized chems at the ready ,filtered water,i usually use a 8 gallon fermentation tube for what ever size I'm making ,don't have to worry about boiling over,hay the mostimportant factor yeast what type do we want,for me champagne yeast is the best for fruit ,it gives it good balance,remember even if you think the fruit wine is dry ,there is always residual sugar left,.




ok lets start I like to use a food processor for the primary blending it get the job done quicker and makes the pulp easier to handle once i got it all blended do comes the pectin enzyme,to break down the good stuff,after two days of that I add the I check the sg and see if i need to add sugar or not to get to my starting point usually around 1.010,the reason I want a high start point is because when its all said and done, my fpac will take care of the slightly higher abv level,(that's my way) waters added to balance out the volume),pectins add,yeast is added,oh I for got the benitoite,,to start the clearing process,now its just a matter of time............see you tomorrow..

 

[rrawhide]

thanx Joe


good luck


rrawhide

 

[joeswine]

next step

after fermentation is completed and taking the wine from the fermentation bucket to the carboy ,

stabilize and add chems,fapc will occurs at the third racking and after stabilization,but not finding.


enter the FPAC,the prep is important,either fresh or frozen berries (no steamed ones )this is where the planning and seasonal growing comes in handy,(plan your work) taste the berries if there ready for processing then move ahead,first either hand crush the fruit or slightly pulse in a food processor,you still want the fruit to have some of its membrane in tact,place in a 14 inch sauté pan place the fruit over low heat,once the fruit starts to simmer it will begin to breakdown into liquid,slowly start to stir (taste )is the fruit bitter if so add a pinch of sugar for balance,your going to make a rich rass berry sauce,the heat will do the rest,add little water as needed but keep the consistence heavy,the alcohol will breakdown the rest once you your at your end add a pinch of kmet,after cooling the sauté add it to the wine and top it off with the balance you with held........to be cont.

 

[joeswine]

TASTE TASTE,AND TASTE

NOW THAT YOU HAVE USED THE 3PS/USE THE / COMES THE 3 TS.TASTE THE WINE IS IT RIGHT?, IS THE FLAVOR BALANCED? IS THE FLAVOR WHAT YOU WANTED TO ACHIEVE?,THEN BOTTLE,NO ADJUSTMENTS ,BOTTLE....

ALL THE BLENDING RULES STILL APPLY EVEN WITH FRUIT WINES.

 

[joeswine]

ALWAYS SOMETHING TO DO

THIS WEEK END I BOTTLED MY RIESLING GREAT COLOR AND SMOOTH,ALSO BOTTLED MY RASPBERRY CABERNET SAOVGION,NOT BAD COULD HAVE USED MORE BERRY BUT NOT BAD.


STARTED A ITALIAN SOAVE AND A CAL. CHARDONNAY,WITH THE SOAVE USED LAVIN 1112 WITH THE CHARD 1118,BOTH STARTED OUT AT 1.09SG..


RACKED THE PLUM AND THE PEACH,THEN THE LONG CLEAN UP.YOU KNOW HOW THAT GOES.

 

[joeswine]

GOING BACK WARDS TO MOVE FORWARD

if YOU REMEMBER IN THE VERY BEGINNING OT THIS THREAD WE TALKED ABOUT THE VALUE OF ADDING AND KNOWING HOW TO CREATE FPACS,ZESTING AND EXTRACTS,THEY ARE IMPORTANT CHARACTERS IN THIS PLAY WE CALL WINE MAKING,ALSO THE BLENDING PARTNER AND WHAT EACH BRINGS TO THE MIX,I GUESS WHAT IT ALL COMES DOWN TO IS THE BODY AND STRUCTURE OF WINE.




WHAT IS THE STRUCTURE OF WINE AND HOW DO WE CREATE BODY AS WELL AS AS TASTE AND IF WERE LUCKY GOOD NOISE,WHAT EXACTLY DOES TANNINS BRING TOTHE THE DANCE? WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEENA WINE BEING WHAT WE CALL DRY AND TANNIN PUCKER ARE THEY THE SAME THING?


THIS IS A GOOD SUBJECT THAT I WILL ATTEMPT TO REVIEW AND HOPE THAT IT WILL HELP ME HELP OTHERS UNDERSTAND THE BODY AND STRUCTURE OF WINE..FROM A CELLAR DWELLERS PROSPECTIVE

 

[joeswine]

WADE WHAT IS THIS MESS?

 

[grapeman]

Joe, I moved that off the forum. We are ever vigilant of these sort of things you saw and work hard to get rid of them before others see them. It is but one of 10 of them I got rid of this AM and at first did not see it because you posted after it so it wasn't on the radar screen. Sorry, and if others want to know what I am talking about it is Internet Bots that are trying to promote things, this time it was escort services.

 

[tonyt]

yea, I see them all the time (the robo posts not the Winnipeg Escorts). They show up in the email for those of us that get immediate email notifications before you guys have a chance to delete them. that must be a real pain in your a$$. One of the things y'all do behind the scene for us. Thanks to all you moderators.

 

[joeswine]

no problem with me there I hadn't a clue what it was?

 

[joeswine]

the body and structure of wine as i see it from a cellar dwellars point of view.

 

[Tom]

What view do you have?

 

[joeswine]

what is the body and how do we get structure in the body of the wine????

well lets first build a structure together.
will start with the foundation in our case its the alcohol ,for with out it why would we want to drink the wine,but its not enough to have the spirits in the bottle or vat it needs to be tamed and balanced.
next we have the walls solid and load barring for the wine makers its the tannins that gives the wine its body,do you know what tannins are ? we'll get into that later,there are more to tannins than meets the eye.

we have the foundation and now the walls we now need the roof in our case its the acidity that bridges the two togetherfor without the acidity you loose the bite and the structure of the wine

all's well with in our dwelling at this point now we need to balance out the alcohol,tannins and acidity to create the balance in our wine and begin to develop the wine .

do you know how many acids were dealing with the good ones and the not so good ones? this can be tricky..????

and finally how can we create more body and structure in the wine if the wine did somethink unexpected in the process...


we'll go slowly,theres a lot to it

 

[joeswine]

Tanins are a group of phenol compounds found in plants. Which create a group of chemicals called polyphenols . These polyphenols are, for the most part soluble in water.

There are two types of tannins , hydrolyzable and condensed tannins.

Tannic acid is a particular type of hydrological tannin commonly found in the bark and wood of Oaks and other plants. It is used commercially in tanning leather and in certain drying processes. So, what type of tannin
comesfrom the barkof Oaksand other plantshydrolyzable tannins.


Condensedtanninsare often found in other plant sources such as Tea,pomegranatesand grape seedsin grape skins.Hydrogenatedtanninsand condensed tanninsare the two main categoriesof tensdelineated.




Wellthat was a mouthful
in other wordstannins produce the mouthfeel to enhance the body and the structure of the wine, , in two different formats.. In general, the reason why red wines have tannins and white ones usually does not is because red wine is made from red or purple grapes that are fermented with the seeds, skins and often pieces of the stems, which in turn give red wine it condensed tannins. Why white on the other hand, is usually fermented with just crushedjuice from the white grapes or seedless red grapes.

Tannins are very important to a red wine. They provide color, flavor and structure to a wine as well as acting as a preservative. Often, wines with heavy tannins are meant to be aged or seller cellared for some time. As the wine is cellared, the tannins tend to mellow out while enhancing the wines body and flavor.

Tannins in red wine will have some acid property, cause you most likely have hydrogenated tannins and their the major effect of tannins in your red one is the astringent or dry, puckering effect. The small amount of tannic acid and maybe present due to barreling or corking will not be significant.

The amount of tannins in red wine will enhance the taste of different foods such as Cabernet Sauvignon or Shiraz have more tannin contents than others such as Pinot Noir or Merlot. This is how some winestaste better with some foods, we call them parrings .

So as a cellar dweller this is how I view tannins in a wine, that's why I consider them the walls of thewine they are are the pillars on which the wine is matured and gains its structure.