when good wines gone bad

[my wine]

So you would take the concentrate (1.7 liters) from a 1 gallon kit, put that in a 7 gallon bucket, add the weak wine to fill the bucket, then the yeast, etc.? And I would adjust the batch to get an initial SG that gets me a 12% ABV wine. Is that your suggested approach?

 

[joeswine]

sort of,, only keep in mind your target ABV as your adding the older wine to the new mix once its completed ,got it, not reversed ,got it.,this way you should be keeping a decent balance between flavor and alcohol. or as best you can and still have a decent wine in the end.
At least that's what I would do.,
two wines completed and blended together. with the balance do what you want.

 

[my wine]

Thanks Joe. Off to do more research and make a plan!

 

[joeswine]

Always have a plan or as I say plan your work then work your plan.

 

[Rocky]

Quoting @sour_grapes, "I would not throw good money after bad; that is, I would not try to rescue this kit by combining with the new one." I tend to agree with this. Doing so reminds me of the story of the Jewish lady who had two chickens and one got sick so she killed the healthy one to make chicken soup for the sick one.

 

[Ajmassa]

Quoting @sour_grapes, "I would not throw good money after bad; that is, I would not try to rescue this kit by combining with the new one." I tend to agree with this. Doing so reminds me of the story of the Jewish lady who had two chickens and one got sick so she killed the healthy one to make chicken soup for the sick one.

If it is possible then can be quite simple (And really should have been been done initially)- which is simply adding desired sugar and fermenting again. First need to make sure it’s kosher.
Because If the kit’s chemical packets have been added, the potassium metabisulphite & potassium sorbate to stabilize the wine, roughly 2 weeks ago, then I’m not sure. maybe another knowledgeable member can chime in to explain if this option would still viable or not.

 

[joeswine]

It's not to much different from blending wines, it's done all the time , wineries add fillers to a standard base to expand the volume same principal you just need to control the process nothing more.
And if course you need to think outside the box, if you want to save yours.
If you've never tried doing this ,there's not much you can say either way.
In the past I've saved wine from being tossed by adding zest ,or an fpac , and so have hundreds of others on this thread .
Just my thoughts

 

[my wine]

Sorbate inhibits yeast propagation but does not kill the yeast or prevent live yeast from continuing to ferment.

You definitely can get bottle refermentation after adding sorbate IF there were enough yeasties alive there to begin with.

I found this in a search. So I should be fine by adding yeast. Thanks!

 

[joeswine]

But will you have balance? Your not in balance now ?

 

[my wine]

Other than having insufficient ABV, what else is out of balance. The kit did finish out to 0.995 and it tastes good but light. So I want to increase the ABV. I'm sure I'm missing something. What is it that might be out of balance?

 

[Ajmassa]

Other than having insufficient ABV, what else is out of balance. The kit did finish out to 0.995 and it tastes good but light. So I want to increase the ABV. I'm sure I'm missing something. What is it that might be out of balance?

I think he means the reason the kit came in super low in the first place. (Like, what was up with that anyway for it to happen? It’s actually very odd when ya think about it. How a mass produced juice could have a random package with less sugar). Anyway, compare it to iced tea from powder. Make 1 pitcher with 5scoops of iced tea mix. Another with half mix/half sugar. The all-mix will have more flavor. So he’s saying to make up for that with a little addition to the primary.

Also i would still like to confirm the sorbate thing since the whole purpose of sorbate is to prevent yeast from fermenting remaining sugar. It might be more of a time issue. Not sure how adding sorbate just 2 weeks prior will affect this. I do all dry reds and never mess with sorbate. Would need to consult the experts on this one.

 

[my wine]

Ok, I understand. Yep, really strange what happened. My son is a certified cicerone and is pretty good with wine also. This weekend he confirmed the wine was "light". He also said it happens somewhat often in breweries. There they make the next batch stronger and mix them. Occasionally they need a third batch.

Checking my notes, I added the kMeta/Sorbate package on 14 July. More like 6 weeks ago.

 

[sour_grapes]

Following up on my comment: I was not suggesting tossing the batch. I just wouldn't chase after it with another kit. I certainly would pass it through my kidneys on the way to the water treatment plant! Your brandy idea sounds fine.

Or (if it were me), I would, I dunno, make a pseudo Dragon Blood batch, and then add your original batch in the late stages. Or start something from concentrate, and do the same.

 

[Ajmassa]

Following up on my comment: I was not suggesting tossing the batch. I just wouldn't chase after it with another kit. I certainly would pass it through my kidneys on the way to the water treatment plant! Your brandy idea sounds fine.

Or (if it were me), I would, I dunno, make a pseudo Dragon Blood batch, and then add your original batch in the late stages. Or start something from concentrate, and do the same.

Any insight on sorbate being added roughly 6 weeks ago —And if it would affect additional sugar & yeast ?

 

[sour_grapes]

Any insight on sorbate being added roughly 6 weeks ago —And if it would affect additional sugar & yeast ?

Yes, it is tough sledding! That is why my two suggestions avoided the problem, to some extent. His brandy idea obviously obviates the problem. With the Dragon Blood idea, I had in mind to basically ferment a high-test version DB until a rollicking fermentation is going on, then slowly add the tainted batch.

 

[my wine]

I did more reading. And I need a fermentation starter. I can't just toss EC-1118 into sweetened weak wine and get a decent probability of fermentation. (It might work, but ...) The 1 gallon wine kit would do this. So will a can of Welch's grape juice and yeast. This article looks close to my situation. Please have a read and let me know what you think.

Everything you know about potassium sorbate is wrong!

 

[Ajmassa]

I did more reading. And I need a fermentation starter. I can't just toss EC-1118 into sweetened weak wine and get a decent probability of fermentation. (It might work, but ...) The 1 gallon wine kit would do this. So will a can of Welch's grape juice and yeast. This article looks close to my situation. Please have a read and let me know what you think.

Everything you know about potassium sorbate is wrong!

Yeah. That’s why I brought it up. You didn’t mention chems initially and this option was kinda dependent on whether or not you used the included sorbate. Hence the hesitance once you confirmed you did use it.

For future reference you can make a mental note that sorbate is pointless in dry wines. A lot of people skip that addition (Been known to cause a chemical bubblegummy kind of aftertaste). Only use it in sweet wines. They don’t tell u that though. It’s just a fail safe insurance policy for them. (One of my many gripes with the evil kit manufacturers!)

 

[my wine]

Today I spoke with Chad, the wine maker at Caesar Creek Vineyard in Xenia Ohio. He confirmed that sorbate is strong stuff but I should be able to start a fermentation in the stabilized wine if I add an abundant amount of yeast. For $5 I got 2 cans of frozen grape juice concentrate, EC-1118 yeast and yeast nutrient. That's a lot less than a 1 gallon kit and yeast.

I got a starter going 30 minutes ago. It will be ready for the must in 2 days. By then I will have calculated a more precise measure of sugar and SG I will need. I estimated between 4 and 5 pounds a few days ago to get me a reading of 1.045. I'm shooting for 13%. I'll confirm all this.

Should I ferment all the weak wine must at once or should I start with, lets say, 2 gallons and add the rest over the next 3 days?

 

[joeswine]

LOVE thoses Spanish wine's eve since itook a trip to spain and did a food and wine tour it'ds been a new wine world for me.

 

[joeswine]

PHASE#2