when good wines gone bad

[ibglowin]

Welcome back Joe! Good to see you back in the new year!

 

[joeswine]

Thank you, this is a great place to start the new year that you think with the subject that I love winemaking even though I don't drink as much as I used to, my wife does and all her friends take part in winemaking so you can't beat that, combination.

This year we going to forward and backward at the same time because a lot of what I do and a lot of what I read is happening in the wine industry, so we need to take a look at the beginning of this thread and then combine that with threads in the future notice that we went through sulfur smells rotten egg smells these are things that we deal with everyday some negotiable and some are not, we talked about tartaric crystals cloudiness of wine testing spoilage acidity and pH stuck fermentation, MLS, we talked about tools in the toolbox do the job with we touched on yeast, zesting, extracts and simple syrup, that is a wide range of subject matter, with still a world of information out there, alternatively I will try not to bore you..................................... stay tuned.

 

[joeswine]

Remember the partners

Remember way back when We talked about blending Which one is better blended with others And which ones weren't,While then the question would be Which wines age Better with one another There are a number of aspects to consider when determining which are the best ones to age,The most important of which are Grape variety Or wine style,Vintage characteristics and And the nature of the wine kit((Concentrate,Partial Concentrator juice kit).

A wines Age-ability Is directly related to its natural properties a wine high in acid, Tannins The phenols Will stand up to extended aging better No one is lowing these,components acidity Is the most critical component.Acid In wine Act as a preservative Provide something for the other harsh components,By tenant, To bind toTo and fall out from the Aging wine.AcidityIs the one properly sharedByAge-where the RedsAnd whites.Walli wines are ComparablyLow intendsAnd the phenols Responsible for the color,There are still many white wine varieties and styles that can aging Extensively.

Speaking very generally,Reds are moreage worthy then whites because they contain much higher levels Of the tannins and phenols But ourAlso responsible for preserving wine.However,There are a number of sturdyWhitesThat can beOut agedThe moreFeebleRed varieties.Cabernet Sauvignon,Shirah,nebbiolo,sangiovese And tempranillo Our Reds varieties that age well.Grenache,Most Merlot And Pinot Noirs,ZinfandelAndAnyBlush style winesDo not generally age well.

Someone blending your partnersYou should know a little bit about aging your partners,Will continueTomorrow ...........Good night

.

 

[joeswine]

Let's continue, these varieties could age well extensively if they had high levels of acidity. That's why it's good to question on the forum, who has made the respective kit you're looking to buy .Riesling, chenin Blanc, some Pinot Gris's and ice wines have the makeup to age extensively, while..frascita,sauvignon blanc and muscat do not .these examples are guidelines to force you to examine other relevant issues in the age ability of a given wine. You can look at the wine kit and ask yourself or others you know where the base product was made, when it was made what types of grapes are end-use and trying to make in most cases you'll find no answers is your wine kit from one region or area is a blend of more than one vintage year? Or the conditions of the growing season? For example, if you are buying most expensive chianti kit your merchant offers, you really should be it really should besangiovese grown in the The zone Tuscany ,as bona fide as as the commercial equivalent after all, this is what you're paying for. In short, gather as much information as possible about any kit you are considering buying. There are enough quality wine kits for you to choose from. And finally you have to consider the relative virtues of various wine kit styles. You buy for the four-week concentrate kit ,or do you buy for the long-term pure juice kit or something in the middle ?close you get to using freshly harvested grapes, the better the results of the finished wine.... To be continued

 

[joeswine]

Knowing your partners, knowing what wine grapes, fresh juice and or a combination of all the above, is critical throughout the blending process, and the aging process for without a good blending partner. Above will not happen, however another factor comes into play filtering and bottling .

Fining and filtering ,aging can be accelerated by the removal of solids of a young wine. More solids removed, the shorter the successful aging,. Of your wine. solids help to bring out the labors of your aged wine .some of the suspended solids and your concentrates will be removed during the fining and filtering process. Follow the recipe directions, I would recommend that you use in manually powered filter good when you filter, since you can control the pressure the speed at which the wine is pressed through the filter pads .motorized machines filter quickly and strip away more than needs to be removed, taking the stuffing out of the wine. Other winemakers may disagree. you may find a comfortable middle ground by using a motorized filtration unit that offers multi-speeds, allowing you to filter your wine slowly or quickly. The advantage of motorized unit is that flow of the wine is steady. Remember that anyone kit that requires fining or filtering which is just about every kit on the market has been formulated to endure, and the wine will eventually blossomed, showing its every charm. Always use a little patience patience patients patients patients patients patients and patients.

S consider that

 

[joeswine]

A LITTLE OFF THE SUBJECT

Ever had a real good day in the wine cellar,well that's how it was for me,Sunday,started off with trying to re energize my fruit wines ,blueberry ,plum peach and peach ,,good fruit taste but not enough adv.,so I add yeast energizer and red star yeast to see if I could unstuck the stuck fermentation,temp,is going to be a problem,at 62/degrees but the yeast is active to 45degress,will see what happens,started 3 WE KITS ,PEISPOSTER,RESILING AND PINO GRIS,LIKE THE LESS EXPENSIVE WHITE KITS BECAUSE I CAN PLAY WITH THEM,if you follow me you know wheat I mean,finial phase of station on 24 bottles (entered the dishwasher) and started 24 more,this is a never ending senerio,re-racked both of my Italians ,there very clear and still have good aroma...like I stated a GOOD DAY

 

[grapeman]

Sounds like a good day Joe!

 

[joeswine]

IT SURELY WAS

 

[joeswine]

Food and wine pairing
The whole idea behind matching particularwine to certain food is to try to achieve synergy from the interaction of the flavors. You can think of wine is a super-condiment when you slathering mustard on your hotdog or squeeze lime on your ceviche, is because the to taste great together. Not many people eat mustard by itself, or suck on plain limes, but these flavors produce a nice synergy combined with of the food. Wine does this as well, but with the added bonus that it's wine.
Will matching food and wine, the idea is to get the most of each part of the meal. you probably don't want to serve and old -finds Zinfandel with mac & cheese anymore then you would serve a deliciously sweet with Carolina barbecue . in the first case, Zinfandel will completely overwhelmed the relatively light flavor of apostate chatter . in the second, intensity Smokey barbecue would shore up the recent . making a case we can then. the idea is to match the intensity of the food with the power of wine.

At the big-boy at the end of the block for white wines resides Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc. For the red wines its the big Italiansbarolo,amarone, the Cabernet and the Bordeaux varieties, Zinfandel and Shiraz .these will usually stand up the most flavorful and intense foods, such as barbecued ribs, wild game, and strong cheeses............ Of Italian descent I can tell you I like my cheeses, my meats,and my sauces,with a glass of wine on the side it hist the spot. I could also tell you then it's a definite point that when the food and the wine clash somebody loses---- to be continued.............................................

 

[joeswine]

Hey, hope you don't find is too boring but I love food and I love wine also look a good beer now know there's something to be said for good beer and I know out there is plenty of BREWMASTERS. Let's continue.



. In the middle ground of medium-intense wines, white styles include, GEWURZTAMINER, Chardonnay blends some SAUVIGNON BLANC. Mdium Reds include.. Chiant, Rojas, Merlo and VALPOLICELLA.

Lightweights include, Pinot Gris's also called Pinot Grigio, dry Riesling, soave, as well as othersin California CHALBLIS-style wines. Let Reds go from the blush wines, to Beausoleil, to Pinot Noir, and finally, California BURGUNDY.

A good rule of thumb is that like to is best served with light and often white wines....................................................... to be continued

 

[joeswine]

Wine pairing, a good rule of fun is that light food is best served with light and often white wines. For example, a poached, skinless chicken breast and steam carrots will probably go well with a nice Italian soave. That way, the delicate flavor of the food won't get pushed around. Heavy then say huge bowl of beef stew a big slab of prime rib garlic mashed potatoes and mushrooms won't over power a big flavorful Cabernet or Zinfandel. So pick, red wines to pair with the heartier foods.. Will have to decide we're cut off is for light or for heavy by keeping in mind will help you pick an appropriate wine.



Acid and sweetness

The word acid has a negative connotation in daily life, as those sour. This is too bad. While there's nothing wrong with sweet, sour is really under rated. If-slavers, and Luntz and their effect on the power acid in wine has a couple of effects. It can either highlight or cut through sweetness and it can help cleanse the palate a strongly flavored dishes, ready you for anothersip. Acid also helps the wines they stand up acidic flavors. It really slinky-dry savignon blanc with taste wonderful with a seafood dish laced with fresh lime juice. While a soft off dry Riesling which case flabby and weak.

This also works backwards, if you're serving a fresh, jersey peach with the plenty-dry savignon blanc, one will probably taste about the same as looking a battery terminal on your car. And that could be very sour, on the other hand, a delicate, all dry Riesling-, will highlight the sweetness of the fruit and seem perfectly down.



We think so far---to be continued think about the balance between food and wine think about when you letting Mexican food rehab barbecued spareribs we have a nice dish pasta or lobster tail, or a nice seafood dish broiled to perfection, which one would you like choose to drink, to complement the taste of the food and the taste of the wine.





To be continued................................

 

[TomK-B]

Joe, I love this thread that you keep running. I've read every post. And now that you're on the topic of pairing wine and food, I have a question I hope you'll answer for me. And I also want to thank you for pointing out that we should be using rules of fun when making these decisions. That makes perfectly good sense to me.
So, here's my question. I have a batch of RJS EP Amarone in bulk aging right now. It should be ready to drink in a year or two. What foods would be good to pair with it when it's ready to drink?

 

[joeswine]

Hi there, and thanks for the reply, amarone is my opinion is the king of Italian wines, it's the type of wine that can stand on its own and doesn't need any other enhancement, if you can buy yourself a bottle of amarone try itfirst, then you'll understand ,or with Italian cheeses and salamis or Parma ham and some dried cured olives and large pitted Greek olives so mozzarella cheese a fine loaf of crusty Italian bread, that's all you need, it's a feast unto itself, amarone by itself is of real taste treat it surpasses Brunello and any super Tuscan out there ,this particular type of wine amarone will overpower most pastas that's why it is a standalone wine, you should drink amarone at room temperature that's when it's at its best and drink it when you're at peace with yourself, to me it's a very satisfying wine, it's the best Italians have to offer bar none, at least that's my opinion.


Thank you for reading this thread I hope it is enlightened in some facet this is a part of it didn't understand sometimes I talk faster then I type, is just my way what did you think about the zesting , do you think you would try?

 

[joeswine]

REMEMBER.,WAY BACK WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT BLENDING DIFFERENT WINES TO CREATE A FLAVOR PROFILE,WELL MATCHING FOOD AND

WINE IS ALMOST THE SAME,THE BEST TASTING WINE WILL ENHANCE A GREAT MEAL,SEE THE PARTNERSHIP?

 

[joeswine]

REMEMBER.,WAY BACK WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT BLENDING DIFFERENT WINES TO CREATE A FLAVOR PROFILE,WELL MATCHING FOOD AND

WINE IS ALMOST THE SAME,THE BEST TASTING WINE WILL ENHANCE A GREAT MEAL,SEE THE PARTNERSHIP?

THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX

 

[joeswine]

LAST NIGHT,was a very productive one for the wine cellar,first we did a wine tasting on the following,blueberry wine,peach wine (TWO DIFFERENT BATCHES),plum/peach ,melbec and caramere.\

FINDINGS.....BLUEBERRY..good on color,lite on taste and abv,OK for mixing but not my standard,peach (3 gallon) liquid gold in every way a wine should be,ready to bottle,6 gallon batch of peach,lite in color ,no aroma,mild taste,good abv,not except able,waste of time,PLUM/PEACH,very good on flavor with the PLUM leading the way,as was directed,peach in the back ground,decent legs great color little aroma,,needs to be sweetened jus a little,and a little more time after that then bottle,,,MELBEC,great all the way around,color aroma ,taste depth and body..will let this one set for two more months or until one year old ,then we'll bottle it,CARMERE,great color lite on aroma ,good front and rear finish,needs more time in the carboy ,not a year old yet ,this one will mature very good,

FRUIT wines are sort of my thing most of my metals of which I'm proud of are for fruit wines,so this is the bottom line,SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND SOMETIMES YOU DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO,,,,MY WINE BUDDIES GET THEIR FRUIT VERY

,VERY,CHEAP,and it shows in the final product no matter how you apply the (when good wines gone bad thinking) ,it just doesn't work out ,THEN YOU DUMP

,and put your time and effort into more rewarding efforts,....................................

.................ON THE OTHER HAND

MOVE-- the pino Gris,Riesling and peisporter closer to there final stages by adding supperkleer and degassing ,to the mojoto,Cosmo and Orange sangria,I added the chems,and finding agents and sent them on their way to the finish line,,,YES it was a busy night..

 

[joeswine]

FOOD AND WINE PAIRING CONTINUED.

 

[joeswine]

Food and wine pairing, matching food in the proper wine is like matching the proper blending partners, remember we spoke about that way back, food and wine go hand-in-hand sweet, tart, sour, all the flavors that wine imparts the flavors that the different foods in part give us a blend of a great deal and I can tell you one who enjoys a good meal. This is true. The whole idea behind matching a particular wine to a certain food to try and achieve synergy from the interaction of the flavors. My dictionary defines synergy as quote increased effectiveness, achievement, etc. Produced by combined actions. If you think of wine as a supercontinent you slather mustard on hot squeeze or squeeze lime under ceviche, it's because the to taste greater together. Not many people even muster by itself, or suck on playinzinfandeles, but these whose produce a nice synergy combined with other foods. Wine does this as well, but with the added bonus that.. It's wine!
Flavor intensity,matching food and wine,the idea is to get the most out of each part of the meal.You probably don't want to serveand old vines Zinfandelwith macaroni and cheeseanymore then you would servein delicate rieslingwith Carolina barbecuein the first case,the Zenwould completely over whelm the relatively theinnocuois flavor of the pasta and the chatter. In the second, intensely smoky, barbecue would show up. The Riesling, making it taste weak and thin. The idea is to match the intensity of food with the power of your wine . At the big boy and the blog for white wine besides Chardonnay it's many disguises and SAUVIGNON BLANCS program wines is the bigger it tags amarone, borello, Bordeaux and to a lesser extent Shiraz and zinfandels. These will usually stand up to the most flavorful and intense foods, such as barbecue ribs, while being, and strong cheeses. In the middle ground a medium intense wines ,white styles including Chardonnay blends in some seminal Blancs and cab francs. Medium meds include rhone styles ,chianti, Rojas, Merlot and valpolicella. To be continued.......................

 

[joeswine]

Welcome back, can you see the relationship between food and wine, or even beer and wine match the different foods go quite well together. Take for example the lightweights include, Pinot Gris's also called Pinot Grigio, dry Riesling, muscotta, soave ,verdiccio just to name a few. A good rule of thumb is that like food is best served with light, of white, wine for example impose skinless chicken breast steamed carrots will probably go well with a nice Italian soave. That way, the delicate flavor of the food will get pushed around. Heavy food say huge bowl of beef stew ,a baselevel prime rib with garlic mashed potatoes and mushrooms will overpower a big, full flavored Cabernet or Zinfandel. So pick, red wines to pair with heartier foods. Will have to decide yourselfwhat your cut off for light or heavy is, but keep in mind will help you pick an appropriate wine.

Partnerships with food and wine have been around for a long long timeI'm sure most of you out there know how to pick and choose. Once a great while just once a great while choosing nice cold beer and you'll see what a difference in taste and texture. It makes in your meal.

Talk to you soon................................

 

[joeswine]

Acid and sweetness ,. The word acid has a negative connotation in daily life ,as does sour. This is too bad. While there's nothing wrong with sweet, sour is really underrated .it-his flavors, in length and their effect on the palate.. This isn't just perception, the acids unleashed on the palate open up the taste buds and turned up the flavor intensity dial .. That's why Apple Apple's need a bit of lemon juice ,. You can't have oysters with other squeeze the zesty lemon ,either.

And

Acid in wine has a couple of effects. They can either-or cut through sweetness and can help cleanse the palate strongly – flavored dishes,readying you for another sip. Acid also helps the wine stand up to acidic flavors. A real flinty – drysavignon blanc, no taste wonderful with a seafood dish laced with fresh lime juice, water soft-all dry Riesling will taste flabby and weak.

This also works backwards.. If you survey fresh , juicy peach with a flinty – dry sauvigno blanc on will probably taste about the same as looking a battery terminal on your car. On the other hand, the delicate, off/dry Riesling, such as itpiesporter style/will highlight the sweetness of the fruit and seemed perfectly balanced.

To be continued.................