Other Where's my nose?

[AZMDTed]

One of the things I'm most disappointed about in the kits I've made is lack of a good nose. My experience is almost entirely in Wine Expert Eclipse kits so maybe it's unique to them, but I doubt it.

Has anyone made any kits with a nose that is good? if so, what kits or what did you tweak or do to get them. My oldest kit is an Eclipse Lodi Cab that is 26 months old and it's still got a weak nose so I'm not sure if time is a factor or not.

I'm thinking that my next progression in wine making will be to get a lug of crushed juice and skins and play with them in my kits. I know several others do that here. Does that help with the nose?

Thanks to all for the advice I've received here in the two years I've been on the forum.

 

[ibglowin]

The only thing I found to somewhat help with that was switching over to a small barrel to allow the wine to undergo some micro-oxidation. Outside of that nothing will help. Adding lugs of grapes will help with mouthfeel etc from the addition of solids but you want to open the wine up since it had X Gallons of water removed from it. Even after adding it back whatever process they use seems to shut down the nose pretty well.

 

[Boatboy24]

Yep. Pretty much all the kits are sorely lacking in nose. Slight exceptions are the sweeter ones with f-pacs.

I've done grapes for a couple years now and am feeling somewhat comfortable. Not sure I'll do any red kits this year. Just need to figure out what that means for my 'kit barrel'.

 

[Johnd]

I agree also with Mike and Jim, the nose just doesn't seem to be there, and it does improve with some barrel time, not becoming prevalent, but just sort of there.

The kits that I have fermented with skins saved from previous grape wines are much improved in both the nose and body categories. I do not do the premium red kits any more unless they are augmented with skins. I have a chest freezer outside with nine big cakes frozen in it for the future..............

 

[AZMDTed]

The only think I found to somewhat help with that was switching over to a small barrel to allow the wine to undergo some micro-oxidation. Outside of that nothing will help. Adding lugs of grapes will help with mouthfeel etc from the addition of solids but you want to open the wine up since it had X Gallons of water removed from it. Even after adding it back whatever process they use seems to shut down the nose pretty well.

I've got two Vadais and can't be happier with them though I'm just now getting the wines in the 3-4 month period in them. I'm hoping that micro-ox and concentration will help. They're losing about 5 oz a week each to evaporation and based on what I've researched at 60 degrees and humidity of about 68% that should mostly be water that's leaving. At this rate after three months that'll be a couple bottles worth of water taken leaving a decently condensed wine. That's got to help with body and nose, hopefully.

 

[AZMDTed]

BTW, what prompted me to ask now was that this weekend I opened up a 2012 Castello di Amorosa Cabernet and the nose that greeted me was so wonderful that I could have just smelled it all night and skipped the wine and been happy. It made the delta between it and the kits so vivid for me.

I choose not to afford a wine of that quality every night but my kits allow me to have decent wine anytime I want. Tradeoff's. I just feel bad for my Eclipse Barossa Valley Shiraz we had the next night, it didn't measure up. I'm sure another bottle of it will taste much better in a month when the memory fades. But I sure would love a good nose, even if I had to buy nose extract, though that sounds rather gross

 

[ibglowin]

Which is why most of us over time simply give up on red wine kits all together. Once you make your first batch from grapes and smell that nose there is just no going back. It's sure easy to have something delivered to your front door but you will never be satisfied in the long run if you love diving into the nose of a glass of red wine as much as drinking the actual product. YMMV.

 

[AZMDTed]

Which is why most of us over time simply give up on red wine kits all together. Once you make your first batch from grapes and smell that nose there is just no going back. It's sure easy to have something delivered to your front door but you will never be satisfied in the long run if you love diving into the nose of a glass of red wine as much as drinking the actual product. YMMV.

Fair enough. Retirement will be coming in a few years and I definitely see major changes in my wine making coming with it (or sooner)

 

[Tnuscan]

Which is why most of us over time simply give up on red wine kits all together. Once you make your first batch from grapes and smell that nose there is just no going back. It's sure easy to have something delivered to your front door but you will never be satisfied in the long run if you love diving into the nose of a glass of red wine as much as drinking the actual product. YMMV.

Perfectly stated!!!

 

[ceeaton]

Fair enough. Retirement will be coming in a few years and I definitely see major changes in my wine making coming with it (or sooner)

Have you taken a whiff of that extended maceration batch lately? Wondering if that would alter/improve the nose at all having those skins hang out so long.

Agree with the whole grape batches. Will only be buying red kits for some of my everyday reds and saving money for grapes. Now I just need to start growing some in the back yard (some grapes, not some kits). I seemed to have a bit more nose on my SE Valpolicella batch, but that had lot's of used skins and dried elderberries, so I'm assuming the elderberries added an element of aroma, though probably floral.

Hey, we have to schedule a weekend meeting here soon, with my wife's new job that sorta got lost in the shuffle.

 

[AZMDTed]

Have you taken a whiff of that extended maceration batch lately? Wondering if that would alter/improve the nose at all having those skins hang out so long.

Agree with the whole grape batches. Will only be buying red kits for some of my everyday reds and saving money for grapes. Now I just need to start growing some in the back yard (some grapes, not some kits). I seemed to have a bit more nose on my SE Valpolicella batch, but that had lot's of used skins and dried elderberries, so I'm assuming the elderberries added an element of aroma, though probably floral.

Hey, we have to schedule a weekend meeting here soon, with my wife's new job that sorta got lost in the shuffle.

Craig, I pulled a small sample this weekend for tasting but I didn't think of whiffing the carboy. PM me with a good time on a weekend to get together if you'd like to try out the EM Cab. I'm pretty sure that my weekend time is more open than yours so let's start with your free schedule and work from there.

 

[ceeaton]

Craig, I pulled a small sample this weekend for tasting but I didn't think of whiffing the carboy. PM me with a good time on a weekend to get together if you'd like to try out the EM Cab. I'm pretty sure that my weekend time is more open than yours so let's start with your free schedule and work from there.

My weekdays are brutal but my weekends are free-er than they were before her new job. I've PMed you and @jgmann67 .

 

[Redbird1]

Has anyone had much experience with the Mosti Mondiale Meglioli full juice kits? Any differences in nose between those and say the Eclipse kits?

I'd like to make a Primitivo batch, and in my very limited search haven't found a potential source yet for Italian grapes. Mosti Mondiale has one in the Meglioli line that is supposed to be released this month. Just trying to see if it would be worth the hefty price tag.

 

[ceeaton]

Has anyone had much experience with the Mosti Mondiale Meglioli full juice kits? Any differences in nose between those and say the Eclipse kits?

I'd like to make a Primitivo batch, and in my very limited search haven't found a potential source yet for Italian grapes. Mosti Mondiale has one in the Meglioli line that is supposed to be released this month. Just trying to see if it would be worth the hefty price tag.

I think @Johnd may have done some of those, hopefully he'll chime in. He's a bit on the quiet side, you know...

 

[AZMDTed]

Perfectly stated!!!

Dave,

I'm glad you added "Tnuscan/Tennessean" to your block, but I'm sorry, I can't get "Too New Scan" out of my head every time I see your posts, that's how I first read it and it stuck

Ted

 

[Johnd]

I think @Johnd may have done some of those, hopefully he'll chime in. He's a bit on the quiet side, you know...

Yes, quiet and timid, that's me....... and I'm only going to respond here, in the Kit Winemaking Forum, because you, @ceeaton have requested it.......I've done quite a few of the MM Meglioli's and a couple of the All Juice Masters Editions, and have found them to be pretty dang good. They definitely take longer to develop.

The difference from the Eclipse kits is that these have no water to add and are purported (I have no proof, but have been told by MM) to be true varietal juice and have never been concentrated and / or had water added. That said, I still find the nose lacking, as well as body and tannins, you can only get that, I believe, from fermenting on real skins and pulp. I really like the MM Grape Packs.

Open up your next grape pack, regardless of what manufacturer it is from, MM, WE, RJS, doesn't matter, and smell it. It smells faintly of grapes. Thaw out a frozen pomace cake and the smell fills the room you are in. Whatever the process is that is used to preserve juice and skins, renders both unlike the real, unadulterated product. That's why I pay through the nose to get my grapes crushed, destemmed, frozen, and shipped to me, because it's worth it.

But those dang skins boost a kit nicely when you thaw them and ferment a kit, that is for sure. White kits seem to be much closer to "the real thing" to me, maybe since they're not fermented on skins, but I'm not a big white wine lover.

IMHO, you wanna do kits, you gotta give up a little for the convenience, but I have some that are very nice every day wines and I am able to enjoy them, just not alongside a 90+ rated wine. Personally, I'm willing to pay the monetary and time investment price to have 'em crushed, destemmed, frozen, shipped, thawed, fermented, pressed, racked, MLF'd, barreled, and bottled, just because I freakin love it...............