White Grape Prep

[winemaker_3352]

I always begin with crushing/destemming the whites into a brute or whatever you have. I add k-meta to it and contrary to Wade, add the proper dose of pectic enzyme also then rather than waiting 24 hours(we all do things a bit differently). I then let this set overnight and will press out the following morning to noon time. The sitting time will help aid juice extraction and yield about 10-20% more juice than pressing immediately.

Good luck with it. Chardonnel makes one of my favorite whites. It is a bit tender for here, but I have a good crop coming on this year.

Is there a need for tannin with these grapes?

I am also planning on a starting SG of 1.095 - is this a good Starting SG?

What yeast strain do you use for these? I read that Seyval does really well with the Red Star Cote des Blancs - as far as the chardonel i am not sure, what do you recommend? I have 2 strains at home now (Red Star Cote des Blancs, Lavlin ICV D47, and Lalvin 71B 1122).

 

[JohnT]

If your asking about needing to add water to your chardonel or seyval must the answer should be no. Both of those grapes should be able to hang long enough to get the #'s correct for wine making. The only time I add water to grape must is if the acidity is way off(too high) and can't be brought back to a good range without getting an off taste from the chemicals needed to reduce the acidity that way.

Rather than adding water, do you see any problems with using Potassium Bi Carbonate?

 

[JohnT]

Is there a need for tannin with these grapes?

I am also planning on a starting SG of 1.095 - is this a good Starting SG?

What yeast strain do you use for these? I read that Seyval does really well with the Red Star Cote des Blancs - as far as the chardonel i am not sure, what do you recommend? I have 2 strains at home now (Red Star Cote des Blancs, Lavlin ICV D47, and Lalvin 71B 1122).

For chardonnay, I use Lalvin D47 myself and have liked the results.

 

[winemaker_3352]

For chardonnay, I use Lalvin D47 myself and have liked the results.

Cool - that is what i was planning on using - but wanted to see what others recommended.

 

[grapeman]

Is there a need for tannin with these grapes?

I am also planning on a starting SG of 1.095 - is this a good Starting SG?

What yeast strain do you use for these? I read that Seyval does really well with the Red Star Cote des Blancs - as far as the chardonel i am not sure, what do you recommend? I have 2 strains at home now (Red Star Cote des Blancs, Lavlin ICV D47, and Lalvin 71B 1122).

No need for tannins in a white.

That SG is fine for it, but I like to use what the grapes have supplied with their own sugars. I try for about 22 brix on these two.

You certainly do NOT need potassium bicarb on these if matured. The acids will be just about perfect. I use Cotes des Blanc on both of them also. The D-47 can eat up malic acid and can be used if they were picked too soon, otherwise it might drop the acid too much.

This is Chardonel you are talking about- not Chardonnay........

 

[winemaker_3352]

Thanks so much - i know the vineyard harvests these grapes when the brix is 22.5 - 24. So they might have a little more sugar.

 

[winemaker_3352]

Yes - it is Chardonel.

 

[winemaker_3352]

No need for tannins in a white.

That SG is fine for it, but I like to use what the grapes have supplied with their own sugars. I try for about 22 brix on these two.

You certainly do NOT need potassium bicarb on these if matured. The acids will be just about perfect. I use Cotes des Blanc on both of them also. The D-47 can eat up malic acid and can be used if they were picked too soon, otherwise it might drop the acid too much.

This is Chardonel you are talking about- not Chardonnay........

I didn't know the D-47 ate up the malic acid - i thought it was just the Lalvin 71B 1122 that did that.

 

[Racer]

Rather than adding water, do you see any problems with using Potassium Bi Carbonate?

As long as you stay in the range that is recommended you shouldn't have a problem using pot. bi carbonate but if the numbers are too far off to be able to bring you back into a good range then water back abit to get the acidity down.

I should have used a big disclaimer before mentioning watering down a must. It should only be done to must that has a lot of flavor (wild or native grapes).You'll also probably have to do other things to get more mouth feel back because it will thin the wine out when water is added to a must.

 

[grapeman]

I didn't know the D-47 ate up the malic acid - i thought it was just the Lalvin 71B 1122 that did that.

You are right there about that. I double checked records and you are right- I had them switched in my mind- dang old age! That's what happens when you make dozens of wines every year - it's hard remembering all the recipes and yeast selections for each one.

 

[winemaker_3352]

Did you have to perform cold stabilization on these wines?

 

[grapeman]

I always cold stabilize the whites. It helps them remain clear when refrigerated before serving. If it drops a bit of acid no problem- it won't be a lot if it is fairly low to begin with.

I see they are almost ready for you to pick. Mine have begun veraison where normally it doesn't start until early September here on those varieties. Even my latest ones are now beginning to turn. Frontenac is beginning to turn black and has hit about 20 brix- a full month early this year!

 

[winemaker_3352]

Yup - sept 3rd is harvest day for me!!!

So if the seyval has an acid level of .80 - which should be normal for this wine - and i cold stabilize it - won't it affect the outcome of the wine?

As that is high and i would imagine that cold stabilization will drop the acid level a lot.

 

[grapeman]

Just check pH and TA post fermentation. If it is still a bit high, cold stabilize it to drop a bit more. CS will only drop excessive acids, so if it is tending just a bit high, it won't have a lot to drop, so it will only move a bit, not a lot. If it is high, there is more it can drop.

 

[winemaker_3352]

Thanks - i am assuming when you say "high" you are referring to an acid level higher the target range? So if i am within my target range - is it necessary to still perform CS?

 

[BobF]

I am going to making Chardonel and Seyval wines this summer from grapes.

I have read that primary fermentation does not benefit from the grape skins and to press the juice off right away and ferment the juice only.

Is this true? If so - should i not worry about adding pectic?

Everything you ever wanted to know - from Mt Grove, MO:

http://mtngrv.missouristate.edu/MWFHU/MWFHUweb.pdf

This is an excellent doc, with great back-info. I've spent 1:1 time with Karl (one of the authors), he's a very smart guy!

 

[grapeman]

Thanks - i am assuming when you say "high" you are referring to an acid level higher the target range? So if i am within my target range - is it necessary to still perform CS?

It is never "necessary" to perform CS, however if you wish to chill those wines-being whites, you risk a haze in the wine and possible wine diamonds if you don't do it. You greatly reduce the haze in your wine and help keep it clean in the bottle. It is just a personal preference if you don't need it to drop the acid.

I'm assuming by your reluctance to do it that you don't have a good way to do so. By the time the wine has fermented and cleared, it will be getting the right temps to put in a protected shed or garage to CS the wine without a refrigerator. If you just can't do it, no real big deal.

 

[winemaker_3352]

You are correct - i don't have the equipment to properly do CS - that is why i am asking.

I know that it can benefit the wine - but if i can't do it was wondering if the batch would be lost - but i think you answered that.

I just found a used fridge on craigslist for $50 - so maybe i will be able to CS!!!

 

[winemaker_3352]

Is using a crusher alright with these grapes or should i just press them?

I have both and i was thinking to crush them - add the k-meta and pectic wait 24 hours and then press the juice off for fermentation.

 

[AlFulchino]

i find that crushing/destemming facilitates a better press result