why am I having such a hard time removing sediment?

[chicken]

Just remember, I am new to this. I only started my wine making journey a month ago...

1. It seems, I have a problem waiting.. It seems so strange to me that I need to wait months and months to do this.

I know it feels like this is taking forever, especially if the kits promise a quick turnaround time. But really, a month is no time at all when it comes to wine.

Try leaving it alone for a little while. Stop fiddling with it. Stop checking to see if the sediment is easily stirred up, don't rack if it's only been a few days, don't add any more fining agents for now. Give it some time --2-3 months if you can-- to settle and clear.

And in the mean time, make beer! It's ready much quicker!

 

[cmason1957]

Why would it be harder to remove CO2 at this stage? Isn't it just a matter of agitation or vacuum? I started with agitation then moved to vacuum...

I just find it takes more than one attempt to remove the CO2 and I have given up trying to remove it. I just rack under vacuum three or four times over the normal course of making wine and it comes out all by itself. For most commercial winemakers, there is no "degassing" step. I guess what I am trying to say is contrary to what the wine kits indicate, PATIENCE is rewarded. Winemaking takes time, let it it take it's time.

 

[crabjoe]

I know it feels like this is taking forever, especially if the kits promise a quick turnaround time. But really, a month is no time at all when it comes to wine.

Try leaving it alone for a little while. Stop fiddling with it. Stop checking to see if the sediment is easily stirred up, don't rack if it's only been a few days, don't add any more fining agents for now. Give it some time --2-3 months if you can-- to settle and clear.

And in the mean time, make beer! It's ready much quicker!

Bwahahahaha... at myself... It wasn't a fining agent, but I went and added pectic enzyme to everything I have brewing. Not sure if its going to do anything since I did'n't even stir it in, but I don't want hazy because of Pectin.

 

[Ajmassa]

Bwahahahaha... at myself... It wasn't a fining agent, but I went and added pectic enzyme to everything I have brewing. Not sure if its going to do anything since I did'n't even stir it in, but I don't want hazy because of Pectin.

Officially banning you from using clearing agents ever again. It’s for your own good. [emoji16]
(And Pectic enzyme is used to remove fruit haze. And it IS considered a clearing agent)

But seriously man- put a padlock on the door and give your wife the key to hold for a month.

 

[crabjoe]

Officially banning you from using clearing agents ever again. It’s for your own good. [emoji16]
(And Pectic enzyme is used to remove fruit haze. And it IS considered a clearing agent)

But seriously man- put a padlock on the door and give your wife the key to hold for a month.

Get this.. I just went down to check if the pectic enzyme might have done anything.. It's working on my 1st batch of SP... The top 10% is really clear. It's basically clearing from the top down. I'm hoping by tomorrow evening, it'll be clear enough for me to rack and sweeten because I'd like to bottle it over the weekend.

I am wondering if it was the enzyme or it just started happening on it's own because when I put the enzyme in , I never stirred it in. I just put in 2.5 teaspoon full.

 

[bstnh1]

For that Skeeter Pee - Have you used Chitosan? Using it with Bentonite gives you both the + and - particle collection from the wine. I've had success using the two as a one-two punch in clearing some stubborn wines.

Here's an excerpt from the link at the bottom of my post:
1. Bentonite

• negative charge
  
• continuously effective
  
• can be added at any stage
• creates compact lees
  
• be sure to mix thoroughly

Negatively-charged bentonite will attract and bind to positively-charged particulate matter such as dead yeast cells (lees). It is unique in that bentonite can be added before or after fermentation, and is especially effective when added prior to primary. The action of CO2 gasses produced by the yeast will continue to stir the bentonite during fermentation, and a buildup of lees will form in the bottom of your fermenter indicating the bentonite’s activity. Be sure to mix bentonite with warm water thoroughly – if it is poured directly into wine it will clump up and lose efficiency.

2. Chitosan

• positive charge
  
• very effective clarifying action
  
• minimal impact on flavor and character
  
• can be used in low-tannin environments
  
• use with Kieselsol
• be mindful of shellfish allergies

Chitosan is a positively-charged fining agent made of chitin, typically from the shells of crustaceans and other shelled microscopic sealife. It will attract proteins, yeast, polyphenols and other negatively-charged particles, and is especially effective when used with its partner Kieselsol (which has a negative charge). One excellent property of Chitosan is that it does not require tannins to work properly, allowing its use in white wines, ciders, meads, and more. Many experts say that Chitosan will not trigger shellfish allergies, especially if proper settling and racking takes place, but we advise caution.

https://www.winemakersdepot.com/Fining-Agents-Cheat-Sheet-W148.aspx

Here's another statement on chitosan and shellfish allergies:

While it's true that Chitosan comes from shellfish – it's
actually derived from chitin, a natural polymer found in the shells of
shellfish and crustaceans. Allergic reactions come from the proteins of
the shellfish organism, and not from the shells. And, to further allay
your concerns – any residual shellfish proteins that may have been left
on these shells are completely removed, during the process of
transforming chitin – into chitosan. And remember, virtually all traces
are removed from the finished wine, after the chitosan drops out of the
must during clearing. So, the origin of chitin, the process of creating
chitosan, and the limiation of the chitosan means even those with
shellfish allergies, can use chitosan with confidence.

Winexpert has also indicated that Chitosan will not produce shellfish allergies.

 

[Scooter68]

When I posted that - I left everything in there. If folks are concerned (Shellfish Allergies) - that's their decision to make. Your additional info is certainly good bstnh1

 

[Chuck E]

Get this.. I just went down to check if the pectic enzyme might have done anything.. It's working on my 1st batch of SP... The top 10% is really clear. It's basically clearing from the top down. I'm hoping by tomorrow evening, it'll be clear enough for me to rack and sweeten because I'd like to bottle it over the weekend.
I am wondering if it was the enzyme or it just started happening on it's own because when I put the enzyme in , I never stirred it in. I just put in 2.5 teaspoon full.

You are really rushing the process. If you bottle a young wine, you are essentially freezing its development. Let it rest a bit!

 

[winemaker81]

I second that -- DO NOT bottle yet. Your chances of being pleased with the results are low.

Once your wine is absolutely clear and is not dropping sediment, let it rest at least a few weeks to ensure no more sediment is dropping. If there is suspended sediment it will drop ... either in the carboy or in the bottle. You get to choose which. ;-)

BTW -- put the carboy in a location you can rack from and let it rest a week. DO NOT move it before racking, or you will stir up sediment.

 

[crabjoe]

Wait.. I thought wine could age in a bottle. What's the problem with bottle aging versus bulk aging?

 

[cmason1957]

Wine can be aged in the bottle, nothing wrong with it. But suppose you decide that it needs a bit more something. Now you have to add it to 30 bottles or more, instead of to one carboy. Also, each bottle ages just a little bit differently, more light, warmer, colder, something's different. If in the carboy, they age as one and you can make some minor tweaks to the taste, if required.

 

[winemaker81]

crabjoe, bulk aging is a personal decision. Some like to bulk age for extended periods, and as Cmason said, this offers time to tweak the wines. I tend to bottle when the wine is crystal clear and not dropping sediment. Both approaches are valid.

Regarding aging, evidence is that wine ages faster in smaller quantities. An article in the Wine Spectator in the late 80's/early 90's about rieslings from the 1700's indicated that the surviving bottles were all larger bottles.

Search "does wine age faster in smaller bottles" and you'll find a fair amount of professional opinions that support this. The opinions regarding why this happens are varied and I did not spot a conclusive answer for "why".

One reason I bottle earlier than some is that while the wine is in the carboy, it is subject to contamination. Every time you touch the wine or if the airlock goes dry, the possibility of contamination is there. If you use good practices when bottling, the wine is far safer in a corked bottle.

 

[Scooter68]

A large part of the decision as to when to bottle depends on the type of wine.

A dry wine where it's clear and no adjustments are anticipated - perhaps bottling earlier is fine. You still run the risk of precipates dropping out after bottling but some folks are fine with that and consider that no problem.

On the other hand a wine that you anticipate adjusting with some level of back-sweetening is going to be better off aging in bulk, without sorbate or sweetening until just before bottling. Sterile filtering aside you have to add sorbate to any wine before bottling if it's got any residual sweetness. The longer sorbate is in the wine the greater the chance of it altering the taste of the wine negatively. Secondly sweetening a young wine accurately is going to be far more difficult than sweetening a well aged wine.

Finally as to risks of bulk aging - apparently they don't bother wineries that age wine in bulk in barrels.

It's a personal choice that you have to make - part of the wide variety of choices we have in wine making.