Why does 6 gal = 3 gal in the end?

[Gill]

I'm on my third batch of kit Merlot. While trying to avoid transferring top fermentations, and bottom sediments during each racking, by the time I'm done I've lost half of my wine.

Is this normal, or is there a better way to retain a larger volume of finished wine?

Thanks for your time.

Gill.

 

[TonyP]

Try tilting your wine, possibly using a piece of 2x4. Also, when you see sediment start to flow, slow down. Finally, you may be able to skim the top then wait a few hours and rack.

 

[Gill]

Try tilting your wine, possibly using a piece of 2x4. Also, when you see sediment start to flow, slow down. Finally, you may be able to skim the top then wait a few hours and rack.

I hadn't thought of that, but I get what you mean. Thank you.

 

[TonyP]

One more point, try racking from the middle or upper level of the wine. Keep your siphon away from the bottom as long as possible.

 

[cmason1957]

And I say shove that racking cane down into the muck, pick some of it up, what's the big deal. It is heavy and dropped out before, it will drop out again. it won't cause off flavors, get as much as you can. I start with about 6.5 gallons and end up with about 6 gallons. No reason to lose half of what you started with.

 

[Gill]

And I say shove that racking cane down into the muck, pick some of it up, what's the big deal. It is heavy and dropped out before, it will drop out again. it won't cause off flavors, get as much as you can. I start with about 6.5 gallons and end up with about 6 gallons. No reason to lose half of what you started with.

Huh, I thought that would ruin it, but i also see your point.

So what do you guys do with all of the gunk on the top of the first fermentation? I loose the first gallon just trying to avoid the sediment and the gunk on top.

 

[TonyP]

Huh, I thought that would ruin it, but i also see your point.

So what do you guys do with all of the gunk on the top of the first fermentation? I loose the first gallon just trying to avoid the sediment and the gunk on top.

I hear what cmason is saying and I get it but the idea of racking is to remove sediment. I'm in favor of not disturbing sediment more than necessary because doing so will move the sediment back into solution. Having said that, I doubt anyone racks without picking up some sediment and what's needed is a balance. To the extent it's necessary to pick up some sediment in order to siphon the wine, then do so. That's part of the reason multiple rackings are done.

 

[tjgaul]

I understand some wine loss, but 50% would be extreme even with multiple rackings. Here are my techniques to deal with this issue.

- As Cmason said - tilt your container during racking using a board or wedge. The supply stores sell wedges or you can make one like this
- start with 6+ gallons in primary and get a 6.5-7 gal carboy for the first racking
- rack everything you can get through the tube on the first rack and skip the k-meta & oak for now - the real sludge won't siphon
- wait for the gunk to settle out (about 7-12 days) and then re-rack to 6 gal with your normal additions - you'll lose most of the gross lees
- give the first cycle at least 3 months (I usually go 4) and then from that point on you should see minimal residual fallout
- continue using the wedge and you will get all but a smidgen on subsequent rackings

It helps to have a supply of mediocre (let's say not premium) wine on hand that you don't mind using to complete the top ups.

 

[Gill]

Excellent advice guys, thank you! I will follow your processes from here on out, that way I'll get more bang for my buck.

I appreciate your time.

 

[sour_grapes]

Along the same lines, I dump the sludge into a Mason jar. Put that in the fridge, and the next day it is very easy to pour the clear liquid off the top.

 

[Gill]

Along the same lines, I dump the sludge into a Mason jar. Put that in the fridge, and the next day it is very easy to pour the clear liquid off the top.

Never would have thought of that, I like it.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Tall slender gives good separation with little mixing, I cut the pour lip off a 250 ml for settling, an easy to find store option is tall spaghetti jar

Along the same lines, I dump the sludge into a Mason jar. Put that in the fridge, and the next day it is very easy to pour the clear liquid off the top.

. . . supernatant is also used for flavor testing, that is a syringe for samples

 

[sour_grapes]

supernatant is also used for flavor testing, that is a syringe for samples

Had to google that!

su·per·na·tant
/ˌso͞opərˈnātnt/
Learn to pronounce
TECHNICAL
adjective
adjective: supernatant
denoting the liquid lying above a solid residue after crystallization, precipitation, centrifugation, or other process.
"carefully transfer the supernatant fluid into a 15 ml centrifuge tube"
noun
noun: supernatant; plural noun: supernatants
a volume of supernatant liquid.
"the supernatants were filtered and analyzed"

 

[TonyP]

Along the same lines, I dump the sludge into a Mason jar. Put that in the fridge, and the next day it is very easy to pour the clear liquid off the top.

Tall slender gives good separation with little mixing, I cut the pour lip off a 250 ml for settling, an easy to find store option is tall spaghetti jar

View attachment 61107 . . . supernatant is also used for flavor testing, that is a syringe for samples

I understand the idea, but I haven't done it and am curious as to the technique. Would you normally leave the carboy low while waiting for the sediment in the jar to settle?

 

[Ajmassa]

-refrigerator overnight works. Separates great.
-the tilt to let the sediment gather in the corner definitely helps.
- Also I always have a little piece of mesh cut and secured to the end of the cane with a rubber band. (The rubber grommet from the lid of some of the fermentation buckets you might have fits perfectly).
- And I use the little red racking cane clip to make sure it doesn’t drop too low

 

[cmason1957]

Huh, I thought that would ruin it, but i also see your point.

So what do you guys do with all of the gunk on the top of the first fermentation? I loose the first gallon just trying to avoid the sediment and the gunk on top.

Gunk on the top, I'm not sure I know what you mean. only time I've had stuff on top that I have had to try to avoid is when I have a cap with fresh grapes and that's going into my press to get as much as I can.

 

[sour_grapes]

I understand the idea, but I haven't done it and am curious as to the technique. Would you normally leave the carboy low while waiting for the sediment in the jar to settle?

Yeah, pretty much. I have also been known to top off with a different wine, and then just drink the, errr, supernatant wine.

 

[NorCal]

When I rack my barrels, I'm pretty blind and I do as @cmason1957 does, shove it to the bottom and don't move it. You may get a few % of the sediment in there, but there will be additional sediment that falls out and each subsequent racking will be that much better. Racking loss on a 60 gallon barrel (300 bottles) is usually 1-2 bottles.

For whites, I find that the racked off wine is a lower % of the total and I'll take the unracked wine, put it in a 2.5 or 5 gallon carboy and stick it in the fridge. I'll usually get 1/2 the amount back again.

 

[laxarwolf]

I'm on my third batch of kit Merlot. While trying to avoid transferring top fermentations, and bottom sediments during each racking, by the time I'm done I've lost half of my wine.

Is this normal, or is there a better way to retain a larger volume of finished wine?

Thanks for your time.

Gill.

Slow way down... Let things settle and compact before transfer.

 

[Gill]

Gunk on the top, I'm not sure I know what you mean. only time I've had stuff on top that I have had to try to avoid is when I have a cap with fresh grapes and that's going into my press to get as much as I can.

My first fermentation usually has a good inch or so of yeast stuff.., super thick bubbles that sits on top. I call it gunk..

EDIT: I now realize it's actually called Must. Now I know..

Next time, I'll siphon out everything I can, and save the rest in a refrigerator so I can pull out more wine.