Why does the bubbles in my secondary occasionaly go crazy?

[jbear]

Early October I started 5 gallons of apple wine and 5 gallons of apple cranberry. I've racked it twice after removing it from the primary and will probably rack again soon. Most of the time there is a steady ring of small bubbles at the top of the liquid, but occasionally I notice about 3/8" of foam. Is this normal?

 

[djrockinsteve]

The bubbling is most likely from excess CO2. Did you degass properly. As far as the foam, sounds like some kind of film mixing with the CO2.

Can you post a photo?

 

[Runningwolf]

This sounds like C02. Have you degassed yet?

 

[Runningwolf]

great minds think a like!

 

[Tom]

Dan, U have a great mind??

 

[Runningwolf]

Dan, U have a great mind??

I thought I did once but now I forget.

 

[jbear]

No. I've not degased at all. Guess I'll have to research that. By foam I mean just a bunch of the normal bubbles all a t once, not a froth. They will be there around 10 seconds then everythign is back to normal.

 

[Torch404]

That could be a slight vibration causing a release of bubbles or a change in pressure, or temperature. I have also noticed occasionally that if there are sturdy enough lees on the bottom they can trap gas. Until they bust and a big bubble of gas goes up at once.

 

[JohnT]

It could be a number of things. ..

You say that you rack it. Does the foam happen during racking or in-between rackings?

Also, Is your wine clear or cloudy?

 

[jbear]

When I rack it I've been topping off with pasteurized apple juice, making sure there are no preservatives. Fermentation seems to stop for a day or two then the small bubbles start again. When I pull a sample out it seems clearish. Maybe slightly clearer than filtered, store bought apple juice.

Like I said, I've been away from wine making for a LOOONG time. I've never made apple wine before so I downloaded a recipe from the net. This started out as a 5 gallon batch that was supposed to use 5 gallons of fresh cider, what is now considered the usual chemical additives, 4 pounds of sugar and champagne yeast.

A guy around the corner has a cider press and makes small batches of cider from the 12 apple trees in his back yard. No pesticides and no preservatives, so it does not keep long without freezing. As agreed I left two food grade 5-gallon buckets with lids and he called me the day he was filling them.

So we start mixing everything together and that is where I made my mistake. Instead of 4 pounds of sugar I put in 4 5-pound bags. Needless to say my yeast kept dying an early but happy death and I couldn't figure out why. Once I figured out what I did wrong I split the stuff into two 5-gallon batches trying to dilute the sugar. Not having enough cider left to top off two carboys I kept one apple wine and added half cider and half cranberry juice to the other Either the sugar is diluted enough now or my yeast has mutated into an UberYeast because other then the occasional accumulation of bubbles it seems to be perking normally.

 

[Julie]

what was your initial hydrometer reading? and what is it now?

 

[jbear]

what was your initial hydrometer reading? and what is it now?

Until a few months ago the only thing I'd used a hydrometer for was checking anitfreeze and battery acid in my car. I''ve since bought a hydrometer but as I have no initial reading I've not taken any readings with it. Do you think I should at this point?

 

[Tom]

YES read the hydrometer. If anything give you practice sanitixing that and the tube.

Did I miss that you have stabilized? If so how much chemicals did you add?

Degass now. No reason to "look into it". This can be it

The bubbles you see may be a restart of fermentation depending on what you did when you stabilized.

 

[Wade E]

A sg reading that is the same for a few days will tell us and you that it is done fermenting sugar and either is just giving off excess C02 now or maybe going through a Malolactic fermentation which means its converting malic acid into lactic acid which with apple can be ok but not always wanted and some fruit wines even though they may be high in this acid actually taste good like this and may be left very flat tasting when converted. If its done with normal fermentation and you like the way it tastes you should sulfite it to stop this fermentation or use lysozyme to stop this fermentation if sulfite doesnt do it.
http://www.finevinewines.com/p-119-7356a.aspx

 

[jbear]

Other than messing up the sugar I followed this basic formula: http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-apple.html

By "looking into" degassing I meant I'd have to figure out what it is and how to do it, not think it over. My understanding is that the Campden tablets are used to stabilize the wine.

I'll sterilize the hydrometer and start taking readings today. Thanks for your help.

I made my first wine in the early 70's using the recipe and techniques in the Foxfire Book series. Those were fruit or other non-grape wines but in the early 80's my Father-in-Law introduced me to wine-making using grape juice. There was a local winery that in season would sell un-pasteurized grape juice cheap, just bring you own jug. The off season he would use pasteurized grape juice, so that every 6 months we'd start a new 10 gallon batch. Then in 86 I went into the Army and got away from wine-making altogether until last year.

So these chemicals and techniques are all new to me. Until I started reading up last year I'd never heard of adding anything other than sugar and yeast to wine. Thanks again for you help and suggestions.

 

[Tom]

Other than messing up the sugar I followed this basic formula: http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-apple.html

By "looking into" degassing I meant I'd have to figure out what it is and how to do it, not think it over. My understanding is that the Campden tablets are used to stabilize the wine.

I'll sterilize the hydrometer and start taking readings today. Thanks for your help.

I made my first wine in the early 70's using the recipe and techniques in the Foxfire Book series. Those were fruit or other non-grape wines but in the early 80's my Father-in-Law introduced me to wine-making using grape juice. There was a local winery that in season would sell un-pasteurized grape juice cheap, just bring you own jug. The off season he would use pasteurized grape juice, so that every 6 months we'd start a new 10 gallon batch. Then in 86 I went into the Army and got away from wine-making altogether until last year.

So these chemicals and techniques are all new to me. Until I started reading up last year I'd never heard of adding anything other than sugar and yeast to wine. Thanks again for you help and suggestions.

I dont like any recipe that tells you to add sugar blindly. All fruit wines should be no higher than 1.085.
this is why having a hydrometer is so important.
Download this;
http://www.xs4all.nl/~mpesgens/thwp/winecalc.html
Great program that will tell you EXACTLY how much sugar to add.
note: take about a gallon from the bucket and heat on the stove and add sugar to that to dissolve it. Do not agg sugar directly to the bucket as it is VERY hard to dissolve 100%

 

[Wade E]

It can be done the way you described but using a hydrometer is a really good way to know whats going on with your wine if you know your yeast also. Some yeasts are only tolerant of so much alc. and that is why its important to know how much sugar to add and not follow a recipe blindly as you cn end up wit a sweet wine that was not desighned to be sweet or even worse stress the yeast into creatng soma nasty off flavors. Most fruits other then grapes dont contain enough nutrients as grapes do thus requiring you to use yeast nutrient. Kmeta powder or campden tablets are used in the very beginning to hold back any wild yeast from starting fermentation while the wine yeast of choice can take over as wine yeast is much more tolerant of sulfites. The sulfites are again used after fermentation is complete as an abti oxidant which will keep bacteria at bay which is ever present in everything we do. If your are wanting to make a sweet wine then either you would have to make much more alc meaning starting with a very hif=gh starting gravity or by adding something like Vodka after it has finised or while its fermenting to kill off the yeast. The best way to make a sweet wine IMO is to start with a decent amount of sugar while keeping the sg down and let it ferment out and then stabilize the wine with both sulfite and sorbate. The Sorbate prevents the yeast from refermentation but these 2 agents even together wont stop a fermentation in progress. Dehassing is something thats done to wine that hasnt had its fruit pressed after fermentation was done or near done as a fermentation produces C02 in the wine and when the fruit is pressed helps to get it out but when making wine from juices or kits the C02 gets trapped in the wine making your wine actually taste funny and having a tingle on your tongue. One of the best ways to get that out is a drill mountes mix stir or even better a vacuum pump following that. Getting this trapped C02 out of your wine lets your bwine clear much better and faster as that C02 can keep particles suspended in your wine and degassing should be done at around 75* as thats when it comes out of suspension the easiest. Trying to get it out at colder temps is ner impossible.

 

[BobF]

I usually see periodic "foaming" while wine is still fermenting in the secondary. What's happening is the wine is getting saturated with CO2. It reaches the point where it can't hold any more CO2, releases a bunch, then subsides until it reaches the saturation point again.

I *think* this happens with my wines b/c I ferment cooler than what is normally recommended. At higher temps, the CO2 release should be more continuous.

What temp are you fermenting at?

 

[djrockinsteve]

I like if I can ferment between 65 and 70 degrees. That being said you need to watch and make sure it takes off. I prefer the Lalvin yeasts and they are fine at this temp. Skeeter pee with it's higher acid and little nutrients I usually ferment warmer.

Wade, what a great disertation.

 

[Wade E]

Just trying to gently cover all bases for someone who isnt up on winemaking but not cluster bomb them.