Wild Persimmon Wine

[RadRob]

I wish I had all those answers but I don't. This is new to me and I followed JKellers recipe. I have since bought a refractometer and a hydrometer. I don't know which one to trust either. I calibrated them both with distilled water and they both read different so I've been using the hydrometer thinking that one is probably better.

Why do most recipes I found call for racking at 1.030 but I've read I should let it go down to 1.010 or lower? IS that for just fruit wines? Confusing trying to figure it out especially when you follow recipes.

Here's all the info I recorded since It started. I hope you can figure something out and explain it to me so I know in the future. Thanks!

Nov 3rd Started the wine and let sit 24 hours
Nov 4th dropped the yeast, used lalvin K1-V1116
Nov 9th tested SG=1.065, hydrometer came in
Nov 11th Racked into gallon jug SG was 1.030
Nov 12th Added 6oz of honey and stirred good to dissolve
Nov 19th SG is at 1.020

 

[Johnd]

As far as the hydrometer and refractometer go, when used at the proper times during the process, both are reliable. I should note that several folks here have compared initial readings (before fermentation) and the hydrometer has had a slightly higher reading than the refractometer by about 1 BRIX. Both instruments can be used when assessing / adjusting the initial sugar content of your must. Once fermentation has begun to produce alcohol, the refractometer should be set aside, as the presence of alcohol distorts the readings, and the hydrometer should be your measuring device of choice. There are formulas that can be used to convert refractometer readings in the presence of alcohol, I don't know how reliable they are, but the hydrometer won't let you down.

When to rack is a personal choice, though I suspect that for most folks, somewhere in the 1.000 - 1.010 vast majority of the recommendations. As with many things in winemaking, you may get some differing opinions, but at those levels, you're still producing CO2 to protect your wine from oxygen, but the fermentation typically won't be so vigorous as to cause wine volcanoes, overflows, or airlock intrusion when your wine goes into a carboy.

 

[RadRob]

AHH, Ding, Ding Ding!!!!! I didn't think about the alcohol throwing the reading off. Now that you mentioned that, I started a strawberry wine and took readings at the beginning and they were the same compared to after fermentation started.

What about PH? Does alcohol change that too?

Back to the first racking. I've been reading about when to rack and saw some conflicting information. Some say to leave some dead lees in for the second fermentation and others say not too. I read somewhere that the lees are still working on the flavors and having the sediment will give the wine more of the fruit flavor. I thought the purpose of the first racking is mostly to start clearing the wine from all the sediment but then read 70% of alcohol is made in the first ferment and the other 30 is in the secondary. That made sense to the first racking at .030.

The more I learn, the more I don't know. I need a "making wine for dummy's" video!!!

 

[Johnd]

What about PH? Does alcohol change that too?

Back to the first racking. I've been reading about when to rack and saw some conflicting information. Some say to leave some dead lees in for the second fermentation and others say not too. I read somewhere that the lees are still working on the flavors and having the sediment will give the wine more of the fruit flavor. I thought the purpose of the first racking is mostly to start clearing the wine from all the sediment but then read 70% of alcohol is made in the first ferment and the other 30 is in the secondary. That made sense to the first racking at .030.

Alcohol doesn’t affect the pH meter readings, but the presence of CO2 in the must will. pH reading should be made on must that has been degassed.

There aren’t two alcoholic fermentations, only one, but we sometimes reference primary vessels (open buckets / vats) and secondary vessels (like carboys to control exposure to oxygen). True secondary fermentation is malolactic fermentation, where we use malolactic bacteria to convert sharp tasting malic acid into much smoother tasting lactic acid.

The length of time your wine is exposed to the fruit pulp / skins, etc., the more flavor, body, and color is extracted during AF. Some even leave the wine on the skins after AF has completed to enhance this effect. Leaving your wine on the lees can also cause it to pick up off, nasty flavors and aromas as they decompose, you need to know what you’re doing. For now, you’re safer to transfer to your secondary vessel somewhere near 1.000.

And no, you don’t need to do malolactic fermentation on your persimmon wine, it’s mostly used on dry red wines from grapes.

 

[Dkrmwiz]

2 gallons to carboy today. Already better than last year, using the mesh bags made it so much easier! It's really bubbling

 

[Cxwgfamily]

Dkrmwiz,
the batch really lookd good. But the color is myuch lighter than my batch. I do not used the fruit bag because I want the yeast to be in intimate contact with all the fruit pulp components. My thought (right or wrong) is that I will get better color development, better extration of tannins, etc. I do not know if I am right of not but it works for me. However, it is a bit more challenging when it come to solids separation and clearing (I have to rack more than most.)

I would be interested in hearing others opinion on bag or no bag as it relates to color development, flavor development, exaction of tannins, and any other issue that is positive or negative to final product.

cxwgfamily

 

[RadRob]

I bottled the first gallon I made last night, it cleared nice using Super Kleer. I drank a few glasses and it tastes great already. I didn't use a bag and used only the pulp on this batch.

I started a 4 gallon batch on the 1st using a bag and I also kept the skins on half of them hoping for more color.
I froze these till I had enough and noticed when cleaning them that if I ran the fruit under hot water the skins would just peel off easy. After cleaning a few pounds I noticed the skins stopped up the sink and the water had a nice orange tint so I decided to keep some with the skin on. These are easy to cut even frozen, the pulp doesn't freeze solid and it makes it easy to remove the pits.

 

[Cxwgfamily]

Thanks for this post. I made a 6 gallon batch of persimmon wine (my first persimmon batch) a month ago. I cored and scooped out the pulp with a spoon. The color is OK but I would like it to be a little richer. It is a pale yellow. For the second batch, I cored and scooped out most of the persimmons, but I saved the ones that did not have very many blemishes on them (probably about 20 to 25 %). I was not sure if I was going to add the skins to the batch or not but now I am. I will keep everyone up the date.
cxwgfamily

 

[Dkrmwiz]

2 weeks since move from fermentation buckets. Re racked. Color or opaqueness still different, not sure why as i used the same process on both buckets. I'll re rack once a month until clear. It will probably be April or May before this happens, i like to go as natural as possible with wine.
As for how i process the fruit. It came straight off the tree into gallon size freezer zip bags, each weighted a hair above 5 lbs. I put these in the chest freezer for 3 weeks, thawed in the fridge for 3 days, removed only the leaves and stems, and put them in the mesh bags. I used an empty wine bottle to mush them in the buckets and added a gallon of boiled water to each bucket. We're on a cistern, so it's pure water i use. I'll post a link to my method, it's actually a wild plum wine recipe (i made 5 gallons of that last year. Freeze killed fruit this year).

 

[Dkrmwiz]

https://andhereweare.net/quick-easy-plum-wine/

Note: i don't use the lemon juice and the yeast i use is the one with a "K" in it. It's for fruit wine.

 

[Cxwgfamily]

I started my second batch of Persimmon Wine about two weeks ago. the pic below is after about a week in the secondary. Looks just like the first batch at the same point in production. the only difference is the second batch had about 20 to 25% of the persimmons skins included in primary fermentation. I will keep everybody up to date. I have not tasted this batch yet. But it is looking really good.

 

[Dkrmwiz]

Color and opaqueness still different, so for this months racking i blended them. We'll see how it goes. Smell is good, and it's still bubbling