Wine diary and question time!

[Deezil]

Ta for the feedback. Wouldn't too hot a ferment also be a problem fruit wine makers come across? We don't seek to separate the sugar water ferment from the fruit flavor addition?

After making the blackcurrant and feijoa wines my concern about an all-fruit wine is that many fruits don't have balanced acidity. Those two fruits mentioned, in juice form, would be quite a bit too tart of brewed as-is. Do all-juice brewers spend time adding calc carb to reduce acidity? If would seem required.

Too hot of a ferment is always a problem, yes, but some fruits - blackberries, cherries, currants, elderberries - will give a different flavor profile when fermented in the 80's, with wine yeasts that were isolated for "big reds".. When you make a fruit wine in the style of a large red, it takes a little more heat in the fermentation for that almost over-extraction of color, depth, flavor and tannins.. But it can also give that "cooked-fruit" taste, instead of the "fresh fruit" taste..

All-fruit wines are all about pre-fermentation adjustments.. Reducing the acidity with calcium carbonates is often the course of action, but the work is worth the reward.

We don't separate the sugar-water from the fruit additions, in most cases, because the yeast cant survive on sugar-water and we'd have to supplement that with more nutrients - the yeast will consume the vitamins, minerals and other nutrients found within the fruit-used, as the yeast needs it.. With every seasons fruit and every yeast colony being different, its probably impossible to quantify exactly but I'm relatively certain (intuition, not science-based fact) that the yeast consuming some of these elements is part of the overall impact that the fermentation has on the fruit flavor, alongside what the other factors contribute - ferment yeast, fruit breakdown, time spent, etc..

Another question for all: the best winemaker at the club prefers to step-add the sugar to the primary so as to not over stress the yeast. He also claims you can, using this technique (and... magic??) stop a ferment at the SG you want and then bulk age it safely as needed. In this way you get a more integrated taste and less of a "this tastes sweetened" sensation.

Thing is, how does one do this without simply cranking the %vol up to 16ish percent? The only time I figure the ferment would stop is when the yeast runs out of sugar or the percent is too high.

I might have misunderstood some piece - there was the implication of racking in there to reduce the amount of yeast cells kicking around, but he explicitly stated he doesn't use sorbate in this process... Does anyone here use a similar process and can explain it? I plan to ask further, of course, but am looking for more thoughts.

Step-adding the sugar is a bit of a personal choice in most cases, and is more popular when trying to push the ABV-limits of the yeast being used. I would be curious if he can pinpoint the "this is sweetened" taste in wine that he hasnt made... It could be "all in his head", if he knows he's back-sweetened something instead of adding the sugar up front; he would just know he added extra sugar, and it wouldnt/might not feel as cohesive as it would had the sugar been in there since before the action quit..

It's not necessarily about when you add the sugar, as it is about the final-balance of the wine.. The sugar needs to balance with the acidity, that both need to balance with the alcohol level and tannin levels; all of which is the structure for the wine to taste the way your mind thinks it should..

And it sounds like he's stopping the fermentation using at-home techniques that wineries will perform.. I tend to leave it up to the wineries, as they have the proper equipment to know they wont be making bottle-bombs. I put too much money, time and effort into my wine to even consider letting it repaint anything at all..

I've done it, but I dont recommend it.

You can do a combination of degassing the wine, then chilling the wine, then racking off the sediment before it warms up.. When wineries rack though, and they want to do this sorbate-less, they'll generally rack through a fine-micron filter, filtering out the yeast also left in suspension in the 'wine-column' (it's not water, lol)...

So they suck the CO2 out (or, atleast I did), so the sediment has nothing holding it back - think about two football teams, then take one football team off the field (CO2), pretty easy to score then yeah?..

So the sediment falls, then they chill the wine, causing any free floating yeast to slow down their metabolism and lose their activity level, while still having no CO2 to hold them up... Each step takes days / a week / maybe two weeks.. Then they'll rack off the sediment, and run the wine through a .5 micron filter, I believe, to sterile-filter it... And then, bulk age it, to see if it starts up again..

Possible, sure.. Worth the effort? Noticeable difference? Not enough so, for the large majority of us.. But do you consciously know that there's a difference there? Of course.... So I think he may just be a bit 'mental' over it.. Not a bad thing, but recognize it for what it is at least..

You can cheapen the process, remove a step, etc, but the chances of making bottle bombs increases..

 

[user 31015]

Here is my Feijoa and honey!



In my opinion it has come together really well. It is, I think, somewhat more alcoholic than is ideal. It should be 12% but it hits me harder. Perhaps there was more sugar in the fruit than one might expect.

The wine has been bentonited and bottled. Got substantial amounts so have enjoyed being able to share it. People are saying nice things, too!

It's closest grape wine would be an ice wine or late harvest wine. I wouldn't say it is a sweet as a desert wine, but it is a bit sweet.