Wine topping

[Tnuscan]

Even if it did work... Which I still doubt all oxygen is gone.... I do not want to age my wine under vacuum!

Why do you not like vacuum?, I thought this was the best way to store or bulk age.

Please tell me your thoughts.

Thanks

 

[JohnT]

Topping up with wine is THE best option.

When Topping up is not an option, and you have no choice but to deal with excessive headspace, A vacuum eliminator is one of your better alternatives.

I do not use a vacuum because I use Variable Capacity Stainless Steel Tanks, but if I ever had to face excessive headspace, I would top up.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

So, Steve, have you officially changed your estimate of the pressure your pump pulls? The numbers you just cited indicate a vacuum gauge pressure of 27.5 inHg. That is great! This is about what I calculated way back when when you first posted your video. It is not easy to build an oil-free pump that draws that deep of a vacuum -- you should be very proud.

NO Paul -
It has always been 22 in of vacuum - tried multiple gauges and this is the vacuum that the pump was designed around including the CFM also.

I just tested 10 pumps all in a row - all had the same readings (22 in hg ).

 

[sdelli]

Why do you not like vacuum?, I thought this was the best way to store or bulk age.



Please tell me your thoughts.



Thanks

There are many things that can damage wine. A few of the main ones are light, temperature, and oxygen. I am not sold that an area under vacuum still does not contain some elements of oxygen. I also do not like the idea of aging my wine under a vacuum. Not sold on what it might do to the wine over time. I do not run my wine through a transfer pump either. I pay way too much for my grapes to take these chances.

 

[sour_grapes]

NO Paul -
It has always been 22 in of vacuum - tried multiple gauges and this is the vacuum that the pump was designed around including the CFM also.

I just tested 10 pumps all in a row - all had the same readings (22 in hg ).

Steve, You have a discrepancy between your gauges and the results reported on your video. It is not possible for them both to be correct.

 

[Brian55]

Why do you not like vacuum?, I thought this was the best way to store or bulk age.

Please tell me your thoughts.

Thanks

With easy access to a variety of vacuum pumps (work related) I used to keep my wine bulk aging under vacuum for about a year without knowing if or what the constant vacuum was removing from my wines (aside from the undesirables such as co2) during that time. As I haven't found any documented scientific research regarding this topic, I no longer keep my wines under vacuum for anything more than transfer, and will continue to top up with wine until solid research has been performed regarding the effects of vacuum and the possible removal of aromatics and such...

 

[vacuumpumpman]

With easy access to a variety of vacuum pumps (work related) I used to keep my wine bulk aging under vacuum for about a year without knowing if or what the constant vacuum was removing from my wines (aside from the undesirables such as co2) during that time. As I haven't found any documented scientific research regarding this topic,

Brian55
Did you have any issues with your wines that were under a vacuum for about a year or so ?

 

[JohnT]

Here is another thought (on the other hand)...

The absence of all oxygen will inhibit the proper aging of your wine.

If you do big bold reds like me, new wine (newly fermented) is just loaded with tannins. The tannin load in new wine can make the wine taste bitter. Low level exposure to oxygen (or Micro-oxidation) will, in effect, nullify some of the tannins in the wine to yield a softer, smoother, wine. This is a big part of the ageing process.

Now, I am not saying that one should have long term exposure to excessive oxygen. What I am saying is that a low level, short term exposure to oxygen is beneficial to your wine.

The point here is that you do not need to be overly concerned about racking or an inch of air in your carboy. This can be beneficial. What you should worry about long term exposure and excessive headspace. Just keep the jug filled, and you will have nothing to worry about.

I love the movie "Bottle Shock" where they say that their chardonnay was made in the absence of oxygen, but then they talk about racking the wine 5 times and also show how the wine is barrel aged. Both of those activities will introduce oxygen (at least at a micro level) into the wine. Given that typical chardonnay has a big load of tannins, you WANT a little exposure to oxygen to soften the wine up. The movie always gives me a laugh and when others in my group show concern over the chardonnay, I have to explain things to them.

 

[Brian55]

Brian55
Did you have any issues with your wines that were under a vacuum for about a year or so ?

Nothing obviously wrong with them, but I didn't do any A-B comparisons with and without vacuum. For reference they were all topped up with similar wine to within an inch or two as well. I've got a couple three gallon carboys. I could split a kit and do an A-B to see if and what the effect of constant vacuum might be. I stopped aging under vacuum because the more I read and learned about wine making, the more it seemed like it was either overkill, or even possibly damaging to my wine. A simple airlock does the job. I currently only use vacuum to transfer at the point of stabilization, and I don't use more than 15-20hg. I don't think anyone using your product for transfer or bottling has anything to worry about. I just wouldn't recommend long term aging under vacuum until someone has proven it to be beneficial.

 

[ibglowin]

Did I miss where someone was advocating "aging under vacuum"?

I thought we were only talking about using vacuum as a short term tool (like inert gas) while the wine clears. Not long term bulk aging as in months and months.

 

[Boatboy24]

I thought we were only talking about using vacuum as a short term tool (like inert gas) while the wine clears. Not long term bulk aging as in months and months.

I believe that's Steve's recommendation with the headspace eliminator. A few weeks, maybe a month or so.

 

[Tnuscan]

For the chemistry buffs on this forum... Is it REALLY possible to eliminate head space? I heard no... That is why you REPLACE it with a gas... Yes.. I use those bottle tops that you pump to suck the air out.. Seems to help. But it's goal is for a couple days. I do not agree to leave a carboy half empty and believe anything will remove all the oxygen characteristics...
Just because you put it in a vacuum isn't oxygen still present?
Maybe just me.....

Could one slice a apple into pieces, lay half on the counter top, vacuum the other, and tell if (vacuum ) makes a difference?

Wait a day and taste. Hummm...???

 

[ibglowin]

Thats what I was thinking to.

I believe that's Steve's recommendation with the headspace eliminator. A few weeks, maybe a month or so.

 

[Floandgary]

I'm making Vintners Black currant, what do I fill the void with if I' m wanting Vintners Black currant?

Here's where you do your research. Look up a couple of the basic hearty Reds, (Cab, Merlot, Syrah, Petit Verdot, Carmenere, Malbec to name a few), and find out what the dominant flavors are. Wikipedia usually gives a comprehensive rundown on wines. Off hand I'm guessing Cab-Sauv or Syrah

 

[Thormo]

Argon gas every 3 weeks will keep your carboys in good condition.