WineXpert WineExpert Kit Product Line Evaluation

[kire]

Since I started my hobby I've focused on the high end kits (Eclipse, Limited Edition) but I am truly curious on what your thoughts are on the various product lines of WineExpert. My friends/family say "why buy a cheaper kit.. if the premium is great!"

With the assumption of NO hacking/tweaking the kits:
- Can you taste a difference (with or without aging)?
- Does long aging essentially equalize the kits?
- In your opinion is the premium cost for the high end kits justifiable against the lower price kits?
- Are there any value priced kits you find exemplary for the price?

 

[pillswoj]

Yes I can taste a difference between the high end and the lower quality kits, that said if it is a lighter bodied red or a white then a step or two down probably doesn't matter.

For full bodied reds I am finding that I prefer the RJS EP or the CC showcase to the WE Eclipse kits, the one eclipse kit that I will make again (many times) is the Stags Leap Merlot it is one of the best Merlots I have done.

 

[Doug’s wines]

@kire This is s great idea for a thread and I’m really looking forward to seeing the replies. My kit experience, while limited (~ 10 kits in and have 3 wine making friends I’m sharing with so about 25 kits tasted), is that I can taste the difference in that the less expensive kits made without tweaking taste like a fairly inexpensive bottle of wine (<15 bucks US, some much less), have limited structure, are one deminsional, and are generally average table wine (nothing wrong with that, as I’ve enjoyed a lot of table wine over my travels!). The positive is they taste pretty good, pretty soon (ie minimal aging).

The ‘higher end’ red kits are mutideminsional, have a bit more structure, can age a little longer, and resemble a midrange bottle of wine say ~25 bucks us. (not bad since avg produced per bottle is < 8 bucks not including the amortization of the equipment). The downside is, they need time to develop and shouldn’t be drank early ( I am too impatient) and generally need at least 1 year IMO. I have yet to find a kit I would put on the level of a nice reserve Cab / Pinot from CA, much less a grand cru Bordeaux, or even a high end Brunello or amarone etc. Nope No screaming eagle yet... I was fortunate that my profession allowed me a lot of travel and wine tasting .

On the white side, I feel like the higher end can be drinkable earlier especially using half bottles for aging which I do for at least 1/3 of each batch. I’ve done the eclipse Marborough Sav Blanc and feel it compares well with many NZ sav’s that Ive had while over there, can drink early and well represents a mid range bottle available in the US.

Also we have done a fun blind test of 10 side by sides and I was 90% correct picking out the kit versus commercial (statistically significant, but who knows ). I feel like I can taste the kit especially in the first year.

As for an exemplary value kit, that’s where my interest in responses lies as well. I’ve been tweaking the Fontana kits with @joeswine recomendations and they are fun and enjoyable, but not something I would be too excited about without the tweaks (to be honest, I intend to give most of the tweaked bottles away to my “friends” who aren’t really into wine.)

Finally wine is very subjective, and commercial price is driven more by scarcity and demand. I have a family member who only drinks Chardonnay and always House. I brought her a few phenomenal bottles over the years and she says says “they’re good but not worth the price difference” (funny cause they were free to her ). One person’s 2 buck chuck is another’s every day drinker.... there was a survey in the Gaurdian (I found it! https://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/apr/14/expensive-wine-cheap-plonk-taste) which is worth a read / remeberance whenever someone recommends a wine who isn’t a connoisseur (most on this site are!)

 

[Brian55]

@kire This is s great idea for a thread and I’m really looking forward to seeing the replies. My kit experience, while limited (~ 10 kits in and have 3 wine making friends I’m sharing with so about 25 kits tasted), is that I can taste the difference in that the less expensive kits made without tweaking taste like a fairly inexpensive bottle of wine (<15 bucks US, some much less), have limited structure, are one deminsional, and are generally average table wine (nothing wrong with that, as I’ve enjoyed a lot of table wine over my travels!). The positive is they taste pretty good, pretty soon (ie minimal aging).

The ‘higher end’ red kits are mutideminsional, have a bit more structure, can age a little longer, and resemble a midrange bottle of wine say ~25 bucks us. (not bad since avg produced per bottle is < 8 bucks not including the amortization of the equipment). The downside is, they need time to develop and shouldn’t be drank early ( I am too impatient) and generally need at least 1 year IMO. I have yet to find a kit I would put on the level of a nice reserve Cab / Pinot from CA, much less a grand cru Bordeaux, or even a high end Brunello or amarone etc. Nope No screaming eagle yet... I was fortunate that my profession allowed me a lot of travel and wine tasting .

On the white side, I feel like the higher end can be drinkable earlier especially using half bottles for aging which I do for at least 1/3 of each batch. I’ve done the eclipse Marborough Sav Blanc and feel it compares well with many NZ sav’s that Ive had while over there, can drink early and well represents a mid range bottle available in the US.

Also we have done a fun blind test of 10 side by sides and I was 90% correct picking out the kit versus commercial (statistically significant, but who knows ). I feel like I can taste the kit especially in the first year.

As for an exemplary value kit, that’s where my interest in responses lies as well. I’ve been tweaking the Fontana kits with @joeswine recomendations and they are fun and enjoyable, but not something I would be too excited about without the tweaks (to be honest, I intend to give most of the tweaked bottles away to my “friends” who aren’t really into wine.)

Finally wine is very subjective, and commercial price is driven more by scarcity and demand. I have a family member who only drinks Chardonnay and always House. I brought her a few phenomenal bottles over the years and she says says “they’re good but not worth the price difference” (funny cause they were free to her ). One person’s 2 buck chuck is another’s every day drinker.... there was a survey in the Gaurdian (I found it! https://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/apr/14/expensive-wine-cheap-plonk-taste) which is worth a read / remeberance whenever someone recommends a wine who isn’t a connoisseur (most on this site are!)

I'd consider the people on this site to be a well balanced group of those that might be considered connosiers, and those that simply know what they do and do not like. I'm somewhere between the two. I can, with 90%+ accuracy pick from a blind tasting, the plonk, the middle of the road, the kit wine (good or bad), and the 90+ point bottle, but I can't honestly describe the wine in any detail, as most wine geeks are able. In all my years of tasting, I've never been able to pick up the lingo. That said, regarding kits, having made hundreds at this point. Purchase the best kit you can afford as your starting point. Trying to turn a 10L kit of concentrate into a 90+ point wine is most likely an exercise in futility. Can it be done? Possibly. But why would you subject yourself to this uphill battle if resources allow for a clearly better starting point?

 

[Trevor7]

I started out with a WE Vintner’s Reserve Chard that came bundled with the equipment package. As my first kit, it was awesome! Having said that, I can definitely say that my move into the high-end kits has been worth the time and effort. All further kits have been Master Vintner Limited Edition and CC showcase kits. I still follow the instructions and have yet to do any serious tweaking, but the results are a wine that would probably go in the $20+ range.

 

[Mismost]

I can tell the difference between the high and low end kits with reds....whites, not so much...but, I'm not a white wine guy either.
In my limited experience, the Eclipse type kits are not bad drinkers early and get very good with some age. The lower end kits seem to be decent early drinkers and don't improve as much as the high end kits over time....but they are never as good as the Eclipse.

I know you said no tweaking, but frankly I find that to be a big joy maker and I do enjoy those Silk Purse Outta a Sows Ear wines!

I am starting to lean more and more towards the big red kits. Why make something you are crazy about to start with?