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I wouldn’t complain lol.
Winemaking 2023 is gearing up.
- Thread starter Snafflebit
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
A few years ago, I wrote a spreadsheet to calculate at what SG/Brix to add the fortifying alchol to wind up with your desired sugar level. Check out this thread. I provide two links, one with the formula, one with the spreadsheet:
Whole grape port
Whole grape port
Whole grape port
Whole grape port
I’m going through that thread and it seems that the method I found is the same as suggested in the thread—add the fortifying alcohol to the must and then press. The alcohol extracts a lot of flavor from the skins, but this does not make traditional port.
@sour_grapes I will work through the pearson’s square to get comfortable using it. Looks like FermCalc has the additional aid of finding the SG of the must that is needed to get the sugar level desired, which then is used as a variable in the pearson’s square (its a guess)
@sour_grapes I will work through the pearson’s square to get comfortable using it. Looks like FermCalc has the additional aid of finding the SG of the must that is needed to get the sugar level desired, which then is used as a variable in the pearson’s square (its a guess)
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but I am not sure from your comment if you understood: My spreadsheet does both of those things "automagically" with no guessing or iterating.
Not that you can go too far wrong with your suggested process, either!
I had not reached that point in the thread, to see your equations. I am a "long-form" reader and need to read the front page first before clicking around
I assumed that there would be a closed form solution to the equation.
I had not reached that point in the thread, to see your equations. I am a "long-form" reader and need to read the front page first before clicking around
You were correct! Which made you in the minority of us!
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I have been looking for a small barrel to try aging the port. This site Barrels Online - Premium Handcrafted wooden barrels for sale sells a variety of small sizes up to 20 L, which matches my volume. But I have NO experience with these tiny beauties. Any suggestions about trying to use a small barrel?
I don't have the experience, but have seen plenty of warnings that the smaller the barrel, the faster the wine is oaked, and can be over-oaked. The ratio of internal surface area to wine volume changes significantly as the barrels get smaller.
A few years ago I tried numerical analysis to see if I could determine an approximate time for aging wine in a new barrel, based upon size. While I was unable to develop a useful answer, I did gain insight into the differences between barrel sizes for winemaking purposes. For the barrels I calculated for, the internal surface area (square feet) to volume (cubic feet) ratio is significantly larger for smaller barrels:
| Barrel Size | Ratio |
| 59 | 2.83 |
| 30 | 3.51 |
| 25 | 3.73 |
| 15 | 4.42 |
| 13 | 4.62 |
| 10 | 5.05 |
| 6 | 6.07 |
| 5 | 6.50 |
The ratio for a 5 gallon barrel is 2.3 times greater than for a 59 gallon barrel.
IIRC, others have stated that the first wine in a new 5 gallon (19 liter) barrel may only be in for 4 to 6 weeks. If it were me, I'd go cautiously and plan multiple batches up front, so you can cycle them through the barrel.
And I would be right at 5 gallons, making a lip-smacking tannin beverage, LOL. I would love to buy a bigger barrel, however, that is a lot of port and I don't know how my or my loved one's livers would survive.
It seems though if I were serious about trying, I could buy a small barrel, age some wine in it for a little while to get the oak out and blend that with my other wines, then try to do some port aging for a couple of years in the 5 gallon barrel
And I would look like a real winemaker if I have a bunch of little barrels sitting around the garage.
It seems though if I were serious about trying, I could buy a small barrel, age some wine in it for a little while to get the oak out and blend that with my other wines, then try to do some port aging for a couple of years in the 5 gallon barrel
And I would look like a real winemaker if I have a bunch of little barrels sitting around the garage.
Folks have reported that each batch of wine can remain in the barrel about twice as long as the one before it, although a lot depends on wines. Heartier wines can handle more oak the lighter wines.
Assuming that is correct, you'd need to cycle 5 or 6 batches through the barrel to reduce the oak enough that it's either neutral or approaching it. Supposedly it takes about 3 years for a barrel to become neutral.
If you have larger batches of wine, you can cycle one through, 5 gallons at a time.
I purchased my barrels at 10 yo from a reliable source, so they were long since neutral. I leave my reds in for 12 months, bottling a wine when the new wine is ready for barrel.
Still considering the barrel. Probably the port will be my gateway drug for barrels....
The port has reached 16 Brix. I added 1.5 g DAP to 20 liters of wine, just a bump to keep things happy. I have had some ferments drop 10 brix overnight, but so far, this is really slow and steady, and BM 4x4 is nitrogen hungry. Ferments were at 70F and after the DAP I have 75F.
I went through the calculations which FermCalc performs to determine the required ending SG of the wine to result in 10% sugar by weight and 20% ABV. "Went through" is an overstatement. I worked the initial formulas in the well documented process on their website FermCalc Fortification Calculations The tool is very impressive, in case people are not familiar with it. I sent an email to the author thanking him for his efforts, but no reply yet. The ending SG where to fortify is, in fact, calculated iteratively first looking for alcohol by weight from the Balling method (a way to calculate potential alcohol) then using that value as input to Hackbarth model which estimates SG from alcohol and sucrose concentrations. Anyway, the methodology looks solid and starts from first principles. Not a black box from some rando internet dude!
The port has reached 16 Brix. I added 1.5 g DAP to 20 liters of wine, just a bump to keep things happy. I have had some ferments drop 10 brix overnight, but so far, this is really slow and steady, and BM 4x4 is nitrogen hungry. Ferments were at 70F and after the DAP I have 75F.
You were correct! Which made you in the minority of us!
I went through the calculations which FermCalc performs to determine the required ending SG of the wine to result in 10% sugar by weight and 20% ABV. "Went through" is an overstatement. I worked the initial formulas in the well documented process on their website FermCalc Fortification Calculations The tool is very impressive, in case people are not familiar with it. I sent an email to the author thanking him for his efforts, but no reply yet. The ending SG where to fortify is, in fact, calculated iteratively first looking for alcohol by weight from the Balling method (a way to calculate potential alcohol) then using that value as input to Hackbarth model which estimates SG from alcohol and sucrose concentrations. Anyway, the methodology looks solid and starts from first principles. Not a black box from some rando internet dude!
maybe it is a matter of opinion? The Hackbarth model is a 10th order polynomial relating SG and Brix. FermCalc uses the model to find a solution to then solve another equation. Perhaps a grad student has been tasked with the algebraic problem by an evil doctorial advisor.
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I see. Closed-form solution that is solved numerically for practical reasons. Makes sense. My version used the simpler linear equations that we are all more familiar with, and those can be inverted algebraically.
I entered the last turn of the race to the finish line.
One batch of cab sauv is at 0.998 SG.
Merlot is 1.008
The port was at 11.5 Brix yesterday, today it is 9.3 Brix = 1.036 SG. I will fortify the must at 1.023 SG
Pressing day looks like Thursday maybe Friday
One batch of cab sauv is at 0.998 SG.
Merlot is 1.008
The port was at 11.5 Brix yesterday, today it is 9.3 Brix = 1.036 SG. I will fortify the must at 1.023 SG
Pressing day looks like Thursday maybe Friday
It appears that tomorrow morning the port will be at 5.7 Brix, th fortification point! The little jog in the graph is where I switched measuring Brix from refractometer to the hydrometer.
The port has reached 6.3 Brix this morning. I have a bladder press rented Thursday. Hopefully, the timing works out. Fermentation is slowing a bit. The other wines have hit 0 Brix or lower and are ready for the press.
The 2023 pressing is done! I got ~50 gallons of wine this year, a very good amount considering the trouble I had with the grapes.
I woke up to Port wine all over the workshop floor. The airlock has overflowed twice now. Stopping a ferment at 6 Brix is difficult.
The port tastes good and now I have 7 gallons of it! Wow. That's a lot of hangovers. I hope the port is mainly outgassing. If it is still fermenting I will let it complete and backsweeten if necessary. But I doubt I will need to.
Now cleaning up airlocks again and getting ready for these babies to go to sleep for the winter.
I woke up to Port wine all over the workshop floor. The airlock has overflowed twice now. Stopping a ferment at 6 Brix is difficult.
The port tastes good and now I have 7 gallons of it! Wow. That's a lot of hangovers. I hope the port is mainly outgassing. If it is still fermenting I will let it complete and backsweeten if necessary. But I doubt I will need to.
Now cleaning up airlocks again and getting ready for these babies to go to sleep for the winter.
Racking the port off gross lees. Incredibly I am still seeing bubbles. I am not sure of the source yet
Not worrying about oxygen like I used to. And what a glob of lees!
Not worrying about oxygen like I used to. And what a glob of lees!
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Splash racking is the project for today, I am picking up whiffs of stressed out yeast.
Jell-O grape pudding pops!
Jell-O grape pudding pops!
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