Yeast for Petite Sirah?

[Americanhooch]

Hey all. I'm working with Petite Sirah (not blending) this year, and should be picking it up this week. This kind of came together quickly, so I haven't put too much thought to the yeast. I was thinking RC-212 or BM4x4.

Has anyone had notable success with any particular yeast strain when working with Petite Sirah?

Thanks!

 

[Johnd]

BM 4x4 and D254 have always done a righteous job for me. Personally, I try to avoid RC 212 due to its need for nutrients and propensity to produce H2S.

 

[CDrew]

In my first and so far only Petite Sirah last year, I used Avante yeast. I was so pleased with it, I'm using for all 3 red wine fermentations this year. Very good workhorse yeast with the added benefit that it is incapable of making H2S. Last year's wine is already good, just tannic the way you would expect from young PS.

http://www.renaissanceyeast.com/en/products/andante

Of the other yeasts I've used, I'd have to give the nod to D21. Very solid performer, not fussy.

 

[Boatboy24]

Don't have my notes in front of me, but I think I've used D254 with every PS batch I've done. Never been disappointed.

 

[pgentile]

The last petite sirah I did was with rc-212, came out very good. Like others have said feed it properly if you use it.

 

[Chuck E]

I used RC212 last year on my Petite Syrah. Pleased with it so far. Feed it.

 

[buzi]

BM4x4 is good but I really like rockpile RP-15. It is one of my favorites and provides good structure to the wine.

 

[Americanhooch]

I ended up taking a possibly weird approach. I'm doing one Brute with RP-15 (thanks buzi!) and the second with D21 (thanks CDrew!). After almost a week, the RP-15 is seeming a bit fruitier and they're going at roughly the same pace so far.

Not sure if I'll blend them at press or keep them separate. If they're developing notably distinctly, I think I'll keep them separate.

 

[CDrew]

I'll be curious if you can taste any differences in 3-6-12 months. Good on you for doing the experiment.

I think I'm basically too lazy/busy to do more than 1 yeast per fermentation and then keep separate and blend back. These experiments will have to wait for retirement in 5-10 years.

I will be picking Mourvedre/Mataro on Saturday for the last of my 2019 vintage. My yeast options are Avante or RP15 both of which are on hand. Planning a "PSM" (a riff on GSM) blend at some point in limited release!

 

[buzi]

I ended up taking a possibly weird approach. I'm doing one Brute with RP-15 (thanks buzi!) and the second with D21 (thanks CDrew!). After almost a week, the RP-15 is seeming a bit fruitier and they're going at roughly the same pace so far.

Not sure if I'll blend them at press or keep them separate. If they're developing notably distinctly, I think I'll keep them separate.

Let me know how it goes. That will be a pretty cool blend!

 

[buzi]

@CDrew I have been wanting to make a monastrell/ Mouvedre for some time. Keep us updated on the yeast choice and the fermentation progress.

 

[Gypsy509]

We have used D254 for two years now. The 2018 is still in the barrel getting ready for bottling into 5 gallon carboys so we ill see how it goes. So far though it tastes great

 

[buzi]

So how is the process going? I have been reading posts from @CDrew and the RP-15 Isn't working out for him with Mouvedre. That is a bummer! I was wondering how it is going for you? This was my PS a couple of days ago and I am excited to taste it!

 

[Americanhooch]

Thanks for checking in! Got 5+ gallons of each of the D21 and RP-15 (and apx 2 gallons of a 40/60 blend, respectively) hanging out in carboys now. Last I tasted a couple weeks ago, the D21 was SUPER tannic and the RP-15 more approachable, but somehow less fruity. The 40/60 blend (which is hanging out for topping up purposes in the future) is dominated by the D21 tannin.

Fermentation is good and done, it's been racked off the lees, and now I'm just going to see how long I can wait. Advice I got from a local winery I help out at was to just let it sit for the tannins to soften; the less I mess with it, the better. (Though that's kind of their general ethos.)

I'm thinking that if I don't get lazy when bottling (6 months or more from now?), then I'll try out some blends with a low proportion of the D21 and see how that works out. But, as always, today's plan is tomorrow's forgotten idea.

Your PS is looking great! Are the tannins starting to rear their head?

 

[CDrew]

So how is the process going? I have been reading posts from @CDrew and the RP-15 Isn't working out for him with Mouvedre. That is a bummer! I was wondering how it is going for you? This was my PS a couple of days ago and I am excited to taste it!

Like I said in the other thread, I blame me more than the RP15 which was a year old. I'm going to have to use it again next year to prove things to myself one way or the other. Anyway the problem Mourvedre is long gone and probably in the Pacific Ocean by now. The rest of the Mourvedre (Avante yeast) seems like a nice new wine. I'll let you know in a year!

Your PS looks great. Nice color extraction and getting there fermentation wise. I'm having trouble with the perspective of your picture. How big is that bucket?

 

[buzi]

@Americanhooch I am glad to hear things are coming along. I am interested to hear your tasting notes. I haven't used the D-21, but I may put it on my list pending your thoughts. D -80 is also on my list to try. As for bottling, I struggled waiting for a year on my first couple of batches now I let it sit for 2-3 years. It is more about having less tannins drop out over time for me.

@CDrew I know you say that but I was talking it up. I still say it is one of my favorites but that is why we do what we do, right? We make heat we like the best. Anyway, I keep my yeast double bagged in the freezer. That was year 2 or 3 on the Rp-15...

Thanks for the complement on the color. Ev-x with a 7 day cold soak. I pressed before fermentation was done on day 18 since the others were ready.

It is a 10 gallon bucket. I would get 6-7 gallons of juice off it. The buckets are perfect for the carboy sizes I have. Although upsizing my game would be awesome!

 

[Americanhooch]

Just did an SO2 dosing on my PS, so had an opportunity to taste it first. The D21 is still considerably tannic, though it's noticeably softer than it was a month ago. It feels more structured and restrained. The RP-15 is comparatively fruity (a shift from before), though still with noticeable tannins.

So maybe think of the D21 as the couple from American Gothic and the RP-15 as their 21 year-old niece, whose genetic disposition toward austerity is in a struggle with the exuberance of youth.

I'll also note that the pH on these guys was pretty much at 4, which seems pretty high :/

 

[buzi]

@Americanhooch I like your descriptions! What was you starting pH? What about your acid? Did you complete MLF? I typically don't worry about oh too much as long as my acid is in line and typically I haven't used MLF.

 

[Americanhooch]

I'll ashamedly admit that I overlooked measuring the pH beforehand don't have the TA equipment, so out of luck there! That said, it's not tasting like a high pH wine, so I suspect that means the TA is not crazy. No MLF for me on this batch.

[edit] --> and to @mainshipfred, I got the free SO2 to ~75ppm, but am using Titrets to measure, so you've got to take that number a little askance!

 

[mainshipfred]

My chart stops at pH of 3.8 and at that requires 60 ppm of sulfite so without calcs I would think you should be closer to 70 ppm. Or you could try to get the pH down a little but do it in half doses until you get it where you want it.