Yeast selection & results

[mainshipfred]

They also have tannin, malo, and nutrient selections that are impressive. I didn’t realize finishing tannin was used commercially until I saw the crazy large amounts they offer.

I'm not sure if everyone does but when I took my wine class they addressed adding tannins commercially. I guess you have to deal with what you are dealt from the grapes.

 

[Ajmassa]

I always just viewed it as a home winemaking cheat sorta. It was until recently that I found out it was an accepted practice commercially too.

 

[Vinobeau]

I once made a large batch of Cranberry wine, using three different yeasts, with identical batches of must. After about 9 months, I taste tested them and there actually was a difference! A very slight difference, possibly after ruining my taste buds with years of drinking Scotch, I determined that it was moot, and blended them all together. I wish that someone could actually and factually differences in yeasts upon finished wines. No one compares apples & apples, its all fluff. And much is propagated by the yeast manufacturers. They want to sell more kinds of yeast. Much like oil filters - 95% of all cars could use the same oil filter!

 

[Ajmassa]

Just an update on my fermentation results using both D-254 and D-80. I wasn’t expecting too much of a difference just yet but they each had their own unique characteristics already.
I inoculated the same way at the same time and dosed same nutrients in the same way. The D-80 showed nice activity after only 12 hours while 254 lagged behind. A few days in 80 was well ahead of the 254.
About halfway through the 80 slowed down and 254 picked up bigtime. Temps were the same throughout. At room temp the peak temp of the wine was about 73°.
254 then surpassed and was under 1.000 while the 80 took another day and a half. My official results :
D-254. Slow starter but finished strong and fast
D-80 fast starter with a long slow steady finish. Fermenting a day earlier and a day longer.
Both took it down way dry without any h2s at all.

I think the difference in the ferments should definitely complement each other well. There were also differences in the aromas during the ferment.

 

[mainshipfred]

Just an update on my fermentation results using both D-254 and D-80. I wasn’t expecting too much of a difference just yet but they each had their own unique characteristics already.
I inoculated the same way at the same time and dosed same nutrients in the same way. The D-80 showed nice activity after only 12 hours while 254 lagged behind. A few days in 80 was well ahead of the 254.
About halfway through the 80 slowed down and 254 picked up bigtime. Temps were the same throughout. At room temp the peak temp of the wine was about 73°.
254 then surpassed and was under 1.000 while the 80 took another day and a half. My official results :
D-254. Slow starter but finished strong and fast
D-80 fast starter with a long slow steady finish. Fermenting a day earlier and a day longer.
Both took it down way dry without any h2s at all.

I think the difference in the ferments should definitely complement each other well. There were also differences in the aromas during the ferment.

I hope this shows up the way I posted it. My results were similar. The yeast was pitched 4-30-2018.

5/2/2018 D80 1.068
D254 1.072
R56 1.072

5/4/2018 D80 1.032
D254 1.058
R56 1.028

5/6/2018 D80 1.011
D254 1.020
R56 1.005

5/8/2018 D80 1.000
D254 .996
R56 .997

 

[4score]

Ahhhh, the ol D80 - D254 combo! Yes, we had much success with this. Our Barbera ended up winning a double gold and best-of-class at the CA State Fair using this yeast combo. Here's a thread where we compared the two: https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/yeast-strain-question.52346/#post-638092

 

[4score]

We have also been using Andante yeast. It's no-H2S is really a big seller for us. After having gone through several battles with H2S, it was nice to have this all-star yeast. We also liked Andante because it had high tolerance to higher fermentation temps and high alcohol. That, combined with the no-H2S made it an easy choice. Results have been great. It plows through all our ferms with no issues. It does allow the wine to truly express itself. One interesting thing I read was that most yeasts allow for H2S. Now, sometimes the amount of H2S is noticeable and must be corrected (splash racking, copper, etc.), but many times there's H2S that you can't smell, but it's still there and masking "some" qualities of your wine. I like the idea of eliminating all H2S.

I'm curious on your D80,254 project......We had found that the 254 had a more aromatic nose, floral and fruity. The D80 didn't have as much smell, but tasted more fruit-forward. How does this aspect compare to yours?

 

[mainshipfred]

Thanks for the tip on the Andante yeast, always good to have first hand experience advice. Unfortunately I immediately blended all the batches getting ready for the next and didn't compare them. Although personally I find it difficult to get an opinion on freshly fermented wine.

 

[jpwatkins9]

For those that have smelled rotten eggs, it is actually H2S that you are smelling. At about 10 ppm, it kills off your sense of smell. After that, you can’t smell it no matter how much there is. They do make detectors for the oil industry, could probably pick up an old one for little $$.

How much H2S are we talking about and how do we stop it if we find we have it?

 

[Ajmassa]

For those that have smelled rotten eggs, it is actually H2S that you are smelling. At about 10 ppm, it kills off your sense of smell. After that, you can’t smell it no matter how much there is. They do make detectors for the oil industry, could probably pick up an old one for little $$.

How much H2S are we talking about and how do we stop it if we find we have it?

At very small traces (seems like strength smell is the only ‘measuring’ needed for h2s) a nice splash rack introducing o2 can release some off smells.
But really copper is the answer. Old school technique was to rack using a length a copper pipe- or through a copper sponge pad thing. But can also add too much copper that way. Copper sulfate or the popular Reduless is now used since it gives control to how much copper is used. https://morewinemaking.com/products/reduless.html
I keep a little piece of copper pipe with my wine gear. And have on occasion took a sample and stirred it up with the pipe. If it helps then I’m good. If not then I can eliminate that possibility.

 

[4score]

My personal experience with Reduless is that it helped but did not eliminate the problem. I've tried it at least three separate times. I find carefully measured copper sulfate is the answer (for me) when I have H2S issues. But now, with Andante, no more copper!

 

[Ajmassa]

I'm curious on your D80,254 project......We had found that the 254 had a more aromatic nose, floral and fruity. The D80 didn't have as much smell, but tasted more fruit-forward. How does this aspect compare to yours?

Well I did keep em separate and wanted to try and note the differences along the way before blending.
At this point already a ton of differences. From color, ferment timeline, MLF visuals, even a big difference in the how the lees is packed. And with multiple vessels each I’m able to confirm these differences when consistent . And 254 definitely has a much stronger nose.
But it’s still pretty difficult for me to say much else for sure yet. They just came off the gross lees yesterday. This week I’ll be putting in some lab time for everything. I’ll have a better idea then I think.
Plus it wasn’t a true direct comparison. I added oak chips to 254 and not to 80. Which was kind of stupid in hindsight because now I won’t be able to discern yeast or oak.
But the oak was my main curiosity here. D-80 and 254 combo is a proven winning combo it seems. Proven by the pros with real palates. But the oak thing is still highly debated. And I wanted to see for myself. I’ve used and not used but never had direct comparison before. A little precursor to the ‘@4score-@Norcal cabfranc/oak’ showdown.

 

[Ajmassa]

I also bought a bunch of Andante last fall but never got the chance to use it. One thing I noticed on the renaissance site is that Andante, on top of being a beast for tolerances and no h2s, also aids the malo conversion. Typically 30% of malic into lactic. What’s not to like?
I loaded up from a LodiLabs sale last August. I plan to do another large (for me) single varietal batch in fall using Andante—The big red gold standard: a west coast Cab Sauv! A few years of 1 varietal per season to blend up later is the plan.
Already looking into options for the best Cab available here on the east coast. I want a BIG cab. If she needs more years to come around so be it. I don’t buy expensive cabs often but had a couple recently and was reminded of what I’m striving for. An ‘07 Walla Walla Leonetti Cellar Cab Sauv (a gift) And ‘12 Raymond Napa Cab. The bouquets alone on were so big and complex I swear I could taste it just from smelling. I wish i had the money to exclusively drink quality wines like this. Im going for broke and raising the bar!

 

[BigH]

71B if my starting pH is low and I need to get rid of some acid. Typically use on Marquette, Frontenac, La Crescent and Edelweiss. Otherwise, RC212 for lower acid reds like St Croix, Petite Pearl, and Foch. I like QA23 for fruity whites that have a starting pH north of 3.2 after chaptalization (Brianna, La Crosse)

I am still pretty green, so I haven't tried a ton of different yeast strains. Hard to deviate from what has worked. I have given D47, Pasteur Red (now Premier Rouge), Pasture Champagne, cotes du blanc, and premier cuvee a try.

I would like to try Lalvin C, which is another malic acid muncher, but I have not found it in small quantities.

H