Yeast selection

[DAB]

In preparation for the fall season I'm trying to decide which yeast to use for my Zinfandel-15 Gallons. I've only made one other batch of wine ( a Cab, also 15 gallons) and for that batch I used MT yeast. I've heard the Avante strain could produce a good product. I've also heard about several others. And, while I certainly realize there in no-doubt a personal preference element to this important component, I also know there are likely a few go-to yeast strains that will dependably and predictably produce good outcomes. So, I'm looking for suggestions...please.

Many thanks!
DAB

 

[sour_grapes]

Just a personal thing, but for a big, jammy Zin, I'd use BM4x4.

 

[salcoco]

visit sottlabs.com and browse the fermentation handbook which has a table with yeast recommendations

 

[sour_grapes]

Good idea, Sal. That link is http://www.scottlab.com , especially http://www.scottlab.com/products-11.aspx

This guide from MoreWine! may also be useful: https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/wyeastpair.pdf

 

[DAB]

Well, I was actually looking for guidance from real users of yeast products more so than general information from yeast vendors. That said, I looked at the Scott site. There "Anchor Yeast Selection Tool" recommends just three specific yeasts for Zinfandel. NT202, NT50 and NT112. Does Anyone have experience with any of these? There NT112 product, from it's description, sounds like a great choice.

However, after a cursory search, I can't seem to locate a domestic retailer that sells NT112 in qualities needed for my 15 gallon batch.

Postscript: Has anyone ever combined yeasts? That is, equally dividing the yeast requirements by two and combining different strains together thus producing/employing the qualities of each?

Thank you,
DAB

 

[cmason1957]

Well, I was actually looking for guidance from real users of yeast products more so than general information from yeast vendors. That said, I looked at the Scott site. There "Anchor Yeast Selection Tool" recommends just three specific yeasts for Zinfandel. NT202, NT50 and NT112. Does Anyone have experience with any of these? There NT112 product, from it's description, sounds like a great choice. However, after a cursory search, I can't seem to locate a domestic retailer that sells this product.

Postscript: Has anyone ever combined yeasts? That is, equally dividing the yeast requirements by two and combining different strains together thus producing/employing the qualities of each?

Thank you,
DAB

Combining years won't necessarily give you the best of both. Probably one or the other will dominate and you get more of that one than the other. Some folks are starting out with a non sac (and I can't spell on my phone) yeast for a bit then add a normal yeast at about 3 % abv to finish fermentation.

 

[Boatboy24]

Like @sour_grapes , I like BM4X4 in Zinfandel. Heck, I like BM4X4 in a lot of reds.

 

[Ajmassa]

I had the same idea last season actually. I wanted to hear some actual feedback instead of making decisions based off of manufacturer writeups.
I found out a lot of the suggested strains can be quite needy and not ideal for home winemakers.
Can’t go wrong with proven winners. For me that’s RC212 and bm4x4. And last May I went with a very popular combination- D254 and D80- separate ferments. Will blend together during aging. So far so good with that.
This season I’m also gonna probably go for the Renaissance Andante yeast for a cab. Can’t seem to find any reason why I shouldn’t.
For what it’s worth- I’ve also read that if making a big red and planning to age for a year+ on oak and another in the bottle then yeast selection isn’t very crucial. A lot of the characteristics from the yeast can be lost over time as the tannin from the grapes and oak dominate and the ones from yeast fade.
Making a homewinemaker’s main concern selecting a yeast that gives best chance for a healthy ferment and fully finishing - without needing anything more than a standard nutrient protocol. And going with a workhorse like EC1118 might be the other extreme. Where you ferment too well and too quick. Not just not gaining qualities from yeast, but losing some extraction from natural tannins you would otherwise get from a few more days.

 

[mainshipfred]

Like @sour_grapes , I like BM4X4 in Zinfandel. Heck, I like BM4X4 in a lot of reds.

BM4X4 has high nutrient needs and a low compatibility with MLF. Since you coinnoculate I would imagine MLF would not be an issue and with the proper protocal neither would the nutrients. I'm still experimenting with yeasts and really haven't found a sure go to but I do like the F80/D254 combo.

 

[mainshipfred]

I had the same idea last season actually. I wanted to hear some actual feedback instead of making decisions based off of manufacturer writeups.
I found out a lot of the suggested strains can be quite needy and not ideal for home winemakers.
Can’t go wrong with proven winners. For me that’s RC212 and bm4x4. And last May I went with a very popular combination- D254 and D80- separate ferments. Will blend together during aging. So far so good with that.
This season I’m also gonna probably go for the Renaissance Andante yeast for a cab. Can’t seem to find any reason why I shouldn’t.
For what it’s worth- I’ve also read that if making a big red and planning to age for a year+ on oak and another in the bottle then yeast selection isn’t very crucial. A lot of the characteristics from the yeast can be lost over time as the tannin from the grapes and oak dominate and the ones from yeast fade.
Making a homewinemaker’s main concern selecting a yeast that gives best chance for a healthy ferment and fully finishing - without needing anything more than a standard nutrient protocol. And going with a workhorse like EC1118 might be the other extreme. Where you ferment too well and too quick. Not just not gaining qualities from yeast, but losing some extraction from natural tannins you would otherwise get from a few more days.

Do you think we are on the same page. LOL!

 

[pete1325]

I've used RC-212 in the past, then switched to (71B) 1122......not sure why, no complaints....so far.

 

[mainshipfred]

I always ferment with more then one yeast and 71B more often then not one of them. They say it is for white wines but I use it for reds as well.

 

[DAB]

Good idea, Sal. That link is http://www.scottlab.com , especially http://www.scottlab.com/products-11.aspx

This guide from MoreWine! may also be useful: https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/wyeastpair.pdf

So, it seems that Scott Lab's yeast(s) (at least insofar as their Zinfandels are concerned) are NOT available to layman like me in 15 gallon qualities. So, studying their site, and their various yeast(s), appear to be of little use to a small-time, home-wine-maker, like me. And so, onward we go!

That said, suggestions from actual home-wine-makers are welcome and would be much appreciated. I'm hearing many suggest RC-212 and/or BM4x4. Sounds like RC-212 ("Aromas of ripe berry and fruit are emphasized while respecting pepper and spicy notes") may be my preferred choice!

Many thanks,
DAB

 

[ceeaton]

I'll throw in AMH that I used on Zin grapes from Lanza in the Fall of 2016. Most of the batch is still in a carboy, but 3 gallons were given to @jgmann67 to blend with his Lanza Petite Sirah from the same year. The upsides of that yeast for me were the long ferment time (aka skin contact time) and the ease with which MLF completed (took all of two weeks with CH-16). You do have to feed it (I used Fermaid O) quite a bit to get it to finish, and the time it takes is painfully slow (I was worried about a stuck ferment), so show it some patience and give it due time. The main points on Lallemand's site are:

Allows expression of indigenous flora
Originating from the Geisenheim Research Institute, AMH™ (Assmanshausen) is a favorite for making Riesling, Pinot noir and Zinfandel. It is considered a color-friendly yeast that enhances spicy (clove, nutmeg) and fruit flavors and aromas while adding positive, smooth mouthfeel to the overall complexity. AMH™ has a long lag phase and a slow to medium fermentation rate. Therefore, a well-managed nutrient program during rehydration and fermentation is essential. Good ferment domination is obtained with AMH™ if the culture is allowed to develop in about 10% of the total must volume for 8 hours before final inoculation. Very malolactic bacteria compatible.

Like I said, I haven't bottled or even tasted in the last 6 months, but it is a very good wine that I need to bottle, and I'd use AMH again, given the chance on Lanza Zin grapes.

Edit: Okay, I tipped the carboy. It has a nice berry nose, very intense actually (and that's after just swigging the last of a beer). Very smooth with some spiciness (not clove) and definitely some alcohol. Also some stewed fruit, possibly apricot. Best I can do under my current conditions.

 

[sour_grapes]

So, it seems that Scott Lab's yeast(s) (at least insofar as their Zinfandels are concerned) are NOT available to layman like me in 15 gallon qualities. So, studying their site, and their various yeast(s), appear to be of little use to a small-time, home-wine-maker, like me. And so, onward we go!

That said, suggestions from actual home-wine-makers are welcome and would be much appreciated. I'm hearing many suggest RC-212 and/or BM4x4. Sounds like RC-212 ("Aromas of ripe berry and fruit are emphasized while respecting pepper and spicy notes") may be my preferred choice!

Many thanks,
DAB

You can get many of those yeasts packaged in small quantities from secondary sellers, like MoreWinemaking.

 

[Ajmassa]

And the other yeast mentioned, Andante, is not sold in small quantities anywhere at all except one location as far as I know. 8 gram packs
https://www.lodiwinelabs.com/collections/wine-yeast-nutrients/products/andante-yeast

 

[BigH]

I always ferment with more then one yeast and 71B more often then not one of them. They say it is for white wines but I use it for reds as well.

Can you expound on your process?. I have thought about doing this same thing, but usually find advice against it. I am curious about starting a high acid red with RC-212, and finishing it with 71B, the idea being that I would get the acid munching ability of 71B but the flavor profile of 212. I know 71B is a killer yeast strain that may prevent other yeast strains from taking hold.

H

 

[mainshipfred]

Can you expound on your process?. I have thought about doing this same thing, but usually find advice against it. I am curious about starting a high acid red with RC-212, and finishing it with 71B, the idea being that I would get the acid munching ability of 71B but the flavor profile of 212. I know 71B is a killer yeast strain that may prevent other yeast strains from taking hold.

H

When I use multiple yeasts they are fermenting in different buckets. Once fermentation is complete I combine the wines.

 

[Ajmassa]

Can you expound on your process?. I have thought about doing this same thing, but usually find advice against it. I am curious about starting a high acid red with RC-212, and finishing it with 71B, the idea being that I would get the acid munching ability of 71B but the flavor profile of 212. I know 71B is a killer yeast strain that may prevent other yeast strains from taking hold.

H

I don’t know if it works that way. As far as I know whichever yeast starts the ferment is the one that finishes it too. Don’t think you can change halfway through without some meticulous tinkering.
What many do is split the batch into separate ferments and blend em together later. That’s what I did with d-80 d-254 combo. Actually I haven’t blended yet.
In your case is splitting 71b and rc212 you’d still get the same end result. And if ya did happen to add 71b to an active rc212 ferment- how would you even know if it worked?

 

[mainshipfred]

That’s what I did with d-80 d-254 combo. Actually I haven’t blended yet. [/QUOTE]

Can you taste the difference, I immediately blended mine?