2018 - Pinot Noir

[Countrygent]

This is a really helpful discussion for me. Have some Pinot Noir buckets from Chehalem OR through Wine Grapes Direct and the fruit looks, tastes and smells really great. Had my knickers in a knot over the predicted long start lag pitching AMH yeast. Do you think I could find any info on line about typical lag periods? Use of words like slow or long but no ranges at specified temp, brix ... I was researching strategies for stalled fermentation when late on day 3, finally up came the cap. The grapes came with 8 grams or so of Ferm O per bucket to be thrown 1/2 at 24 hours and 1/2 at 1/3 depletion but from your discussion and my fears of Sulphur ... might just throw in some K and DAP as well at 1/2 depletion, maybe undershoot a little - can't the DAP in fact promote sulphur problems in some situations? There is so much advice out there about avoiding DAP if at all possible. Rookie fears here.

I am hoping one of the reasons I had an unrecoverable sulphur problem previously with RC-212 and pinot noir (yes, Reduless, copper wire, Noblesse did not cure it) was too hot a fermentation and not getting the gross lees out soon enough. Followed the standard early feeding with modest Ferm K but to no avail. Once bitten, twice shy.

 

[CK55]

This is a really helpful discussion for me. Have some Pinot Noir buckets from Chehalem OR through Wine Grapes Direct and the fruit looks, tastes and smells really great. Had my knickers in a knot over the predicted long start lag pitching AMH yeast. Do you think I could find any info on line about typical lag periods? Use of words like slow or long but no ranges at specified temp, brix ... I was researching strategies for stalled fermentation when late on day 3, finally up came the cap. The grapes came with 8 grams or so of Ferm O per bucket to be thrown 1/2 at 24 hours and 1/2 at 1/3 depletion but from your discussion and my fears of Sulphur ... might just throw in some K and DAP as well at 1/2 depletion, maybe undershoot a little - can't the DAP in fact promote sulphur problems in some situations? There is so much advice out there about avoiding DAP if at all possible. Rookie fears here.

I am hoping one of the reasons I had an unrecoverable sulphur problem previously with RC-212 and pinot noir (yes, Reduless, copper wire, Noblesse did not cure it) was too hot a fermentation and not getting the gross lees out soon enough. Followed the standard early feeding with modest Ferm K but to no avail. Once bitten, twice shy.

RC-212 can be a bit sulfuric if you aren't careful. My last batch fermented dry then hit spontaneous MLF even with sulfites and I know this because of the aroma that came from it it was very noticeable.

Even with nutrients you can still get some Hydrogen Sulfide which is that nasty egg smell. Some weird of bad smells can just be normal fermentation.

 

[Johnd]

My last batch fermented dry then hit spontaneous MLF even with sulfites and I know this because of the aroma that came from it it was very noticeable.

Are you saying that you can detect MLF progress by the aroma that it produces???????

 

[CK55]

Are you saying that you can detect MLF progress by the aroma that it produces???????

Everytime I do MLF, it makes a distinct candy like butterscotch aroma. So, no I measure progress the traditional way but i can tell it's started even if I can't see bubbles via the smell.

All I'm stating is that while I check progress using the methods everyone does. I can pick up when it's started via smell. I have a good nose and great sense of taste. That's just me in winemaking I can tell via taste and smell when something's not going right. Very easily.

 

[Ajmassa]

Everytime I do MLF, it makes a distinct candy like butterscotch aroma. So, no I measure progress the traditional way but i can tell it's started even if I can't see bubbles via the smell.

All I'm stating is that while I check progress using the methods everyone does. I can pick up when it's started via smell. I have a good nose and great sense of taste. That's just me in winemaking I can tell via taste and smell when something's not going right. Very easily.

Dude.

 

[Johnd]

Dude.

Right.

 

[Ajmassa]

[quietly waiting for that next Pinot update]. @jburtner?

 

[jburtner]

I can smell when AF starts every time

Everythings looking good this morning. Must temp holding its own without heating pad assistance @ about 78*F. SG down from 1.110 to 1.080. Added third round of nutrients a little early because it’s fermenting steadily and i don’t want it to overshoot. One fourth and final nutrient addition scheduled for “before 50% or 1.050”. Not a hint of H2S and the reduless arrive today for insurance.

The cap firms up on this one in 10-15m after punchdown.

On this batch I am only using free run to bulk age and bottle so hopefully will yield a carboy and some top-up. The potential ABV is around 15 to 15.5%.

Cheers!
-johann

 

[Johnd]

On this batch I am only using free run to bulk age and bottle so hopefully will yield a carboy and some top-up.
-johann

What are you going to do with the press wine?? Or are you not going to press? Just thinking out loud, but 15% - 15.5% is pretty high ABV for a Pinot Noir, consider hanging on to your press run wine in case later you feel like adding it back to the wine to help balance with some bigger taste components.

 

[jburtner]

I'm not sure yet whether I'll press. It depends on how much free run I get but pressing a little to keep on the side to balance the ABV sounds like a great idea too. I have a bucket with a gajillion 1/8" holes in the bottom and plenty 5g paint bags for free-run / lauter-tun and will load up the small basket press, and of course the drilled PVC tube down into the brute for the initial free run.

The press wine remaining in the pomace is important and it's for a different project which must go nameless here but I'm sure y'all would approve

The smell of the AF has quickly dominated the house and it's really quite enjoyable

Cheers!
-johann

 

[jburtner]

SG dropped to 1.060 late tonight from 1.080 early this morning. I’ll add last of nutrient protocol in the morning. Smells good tastes good is good.

Cheers!
-johann

 

[jburtner]

SG is down to just above 1.050 this morning. 1/2 depletion in under two days. First time I’ve used a nutrient protocol significantly different than package directions and as a specific reaction to critically low YAN levels and to prevent H2S issues.

We’re only 1/2 way to dry and still need to rack off gross lee’s so not there yet.

Thanks for all the help and comments! Much appreciated

Cheers,
-johann

 

[Johnd]

First time I’ve used a nutrient protocol significantly different than package directions and as a specific reaction to critically low YAN levels and to prevent H2S issues.

Normally, we as home winemakers, don't have access to YAN numbers, only time I've ever known mine was when purchasing Brehm buckets, same as you. Just imagine the difficulties you might be having if you didn't know that you were dealing with a low YAN must and just using "standard" nutrient protocol. Suppose the old sniffers would help ferret out the culprit, but man is it nice knowing what you're dealing with up front..........Really glad to see your ferment going well.

 

[jburtner]

I racked the free run into one carboy using the PVC pipe w/million-holes-and-paint-bag then loaded up the press for some more free run and light pressing. Moved the carboys into a section of the cellar which is much cooler this time of year to compact the gross lee’s quickly for next racking in a day or two.

Cheers!
-johann

 

[stickman]

Your free run looks fairly dark, nice; it's funny that the skins look like they have more color to give, but Pinot just doesn't like giving it up.

 

[jburtner]

I don't think it's that dark but it certainly has less particulate than the press - even just lightly pressed...

Cheers!
-jb

 

[jburtner]

The Pinot Noir is looking good. I had moved it into the cold room (abt 50*F) and the lee’s compacted very nicely over a couple days. Even got a couple diamonds out of the deal. Total yield was 8 gallons and I wrapped with a heating pad to temp them up a little to get the MLF going again and to finish AF.