5 beginner questions I couldn't find answers to

[BigPurk]

I see so many people talk about using star StarSan or kmeta for sanitizing, but very few seem to use One Step. It's what my LHBS (when I had one) recommended, and what I've always used. There's no foam like StarSan, or fumes like kmeta. I've even drank it accidentally (a stupid story) and after a call to the poison center, they concluded it was no big deal. Is there no love for One Step?

I used to use one step too, but I cant get it anymore. I liked it better.

 

[QuiQuog]

I used to use one step too, but I cant get it anymore. I liked it better.

Amazon has it

 

[winemanden]

Have a look at Chuck D's thread in Country Fruit Winemaking and you'll see one of the reasons for racking to a secondary container. If you're careful about oxidation it will also make your wine taste better.

 

[hounddawg]

Now that I have a couple wine kits under my belt, I figure it's time for me start understanding the "why" when I'm doing something instead of just blindly following the directions that come with kits. I know that the kits are designed to be as simple and forgiving as possible, so I'm just hoping this post will help me gain a better understanding of what I'm doing and will help with my progression towards hopefully making wines from grapes some day (Hoping for next harvest season next year)
While this forum and so many members have been invaluable so far, there are a couple questions I've written down in my notes while making my kits that I couldn't find specific answers to searching through old posts, so I figured I'd throw em out there and hope to gain some much needed knowledge and opinions here in my own post.

1) Yeast question for kits - Both the kits I have done so far have been reds from WineXpert (gonna do a FWK next), and the directions just have you sprinkle the included yeast packets on top of the must. They never mention making a yeast starter or adding any nutrients. Both of my kits fermentations took off right away and had no issues, so I'm wondering why making a yeast starter and adding nutrients would ever be needed? My best guess is that the included yeasts with the kits (EC-1118 and RC212) are just yeasts that don't need that and start and thrive easily on their own? Would there be any advantages to making a yeast starter with these instead of just dumping onto the must dry of my kit?

21) Secondary Fermentation - I just noticed that the directions don't call to rack into a secondary fermenter at all during the fermentation process, which seems to be a standard procedure in all other winemaking. The directions want you to start fermentation, checking SG periodically, and then rack out when you reach the target SG <.996 into a carboy. You then move right on into clearing by adding kieselsol and then chitosans the next day. Would my wine benefit from being moved into a secondary vessel at about 1.020-1.030 instead of leaving in the original fermenter the entire time per the directions? My (assumed) understanding of the purpose behind moving into a secondary fermenter is to eliminate the large head space as the fermentation draws near completion and there is less co2 being produced to protect the wine from oxygen. Why would this be any different in kit wine making than any other method? I don't see a reason to leave it in one fermenter the entire time and risk oxygen effecting the wine near the end when it could be prevented by finishing it off in a carboy instead of a bucket. I guess my question is what is the real purpose of moving into a secondary fermenter and if there is a logical purpose, shouldn't I be doing it with my kit wines?

3) Sanitation products - I have been experimenting back and forth between using star san and k-meta for my sanitizing. I have been trying to see the pros and cons of each, I'm leaning towards just going with k-meta, but there are things about both of them that worry me. With the "3 tablespoon: 1 gallon water" k-meta solution, obviously the cough inducing odor and 10 minute wait times are cons, but my main concern is using this solution to sanitize bottles for bottling. I find it hard to believe that the remaining liquid left in the 750ml bottle after rinsing isn't adding to the so2 level, which of course would be in addition to the 1/4 teaspoon of k-meta I already added to the carboy. Is this not an issue? Is it perhaps better to sanitize bottles with starsan before bottling for this reason?

4) Clearing/ Fining - Both kits used the same things ingredients for what I believe the purpose is clearing the wine: Bentonite before fermentation, and a kieselsol/ chitosan combo after fermentation.
I am assuming these are used to speed up the clearing process so the wine can be bottled in 4/6/8 weeks, but since I am bulk aging all my wines 6+ months, could I skip these without any harm? Especially the bentonite (what a PITA). My wine should clear on its own in that time right?

5) Potassium sorbate - There is a packet of this included in the kits and the directions say to add it right when fermentation is done and you've racked it out of the fermenter. It is my (again, assumed) understanding that the purpose of this is to stop any wild yeast strains that are in the wine from starting to ferment. If I'm not back sweetening (which I'm not because I'm making dry reds), I don't understand the purpose of adding this at this step, or even at the time of bottling, especially since I am adding that 1/4 teaspoon dose of k-meta every time I rack and before I bottle. Shouldn't that do the job and make the sorbate unnecessary?

Sorry for the long winded novel and scattered thoughts, I thank you in advance for all the advice/ knowledge/ opinions I get! You have all been so unbelievably helpful and loaded with great information!!!

first go to school to learn to count,,, that wasn't a couple questions, lol ,,, you can pour early into the secondary, to stimulate oxygen, no finings, I use what's called time and patience. sorbate is used just before back sweetening,, you ,,haunt written down no Scobey do novelty's? HAVE YOU
Dawg

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Love it! Great perspective and really got me thinking! Thanks!! I have been searching for a decent basket press, but they seem to be very hard to find these days!

@skylerl33 check out www.grapemust.com... they are out of Livermore and offer frozen must buckets like Brehm and WGD, BUT, they are much lower cost and include free shipping too. They won't have the high end stuff like WGD, but it's a nice option between kits and frozen must pails. BTW, I think Brehm is slowing phasing out of the frozen must business and WGD are starting to take over their remaining inventory.

 

[Charles DeVier]

In past years, I used Campton tablets but last year switched to Star San; and I like it. I have always made wine from fruit or grapes. I weight out the amount of fruit (apples, pears, peaches, etc), place in a bucket and cover with a solution of Star San. After 10 or more minutes, I start cutting up the fruit and removing the bad places. Apple and pear seeds are left in the mash.
Grapes are never washed or sterilized. I want the natural yeast left on the grape. I might add that I grow my own fruit, so I know what is sprayed on it.

 

[Anna Nelson]

I too have One Step. It was the only brand available in town. I always thought it was similar to Star San.

 

[Jovimaple]

I use One Step for sanitizing my equipment. I use kmeta (powder or crushed campden tablet) for the must and wine.

I do not believe One Step, Star San, and similar sanitizers are intended to be used on the actual ingredients/must. They are to sanitize the equipment.

 

[winemaker81]

I too have One Step. It was the only brand available in town. I always thought it was similar to Star San.

I use One Step for sanitizing my equipment. I use kmeta (powder or crushed campden tablet) for the must and wine.

I do not believe One Step, Star San, and similar sanitizers are intended to be used on the actual ingredients/must. They are to sanitize the equipment.

One Step is not a sanitizer, it's a cleaner. Last I checked, the vendor stated this explicitly. My guess is there is some threshold required to classify a product as a "sanitizer", but One Step doesn't meet the definition.

In winemaking, "sanitizing" means reducing the amount of hostile microbial life to below a threshold where it is not a danger to the wine. From my research, a good cleaning does most of the job and may be sufficient. However, I use K-meta solution and/or Star San (occasionally) to ensure my equipment is sanitized.

Both Star San and One Step are no-rinse solutions. I shake off the excess and use the equipment. However, if you're not comfortable doing that, then rinse first. There's a lot of things I understand are fine, but I'm not comfortable doing, so I don't.

 

[cmason1957]

One Step is not a sanitizer, it's a cleaner. Last I checked, the vendor stated this explicitly. My guess is there is some threshold required to classify a product as a "sanitizer", but One Step doesn't meet the definition.

One Step sometimes claims to be both a cleaner and a sanitizer. From it's advertising " It uses active oxygen which is released to form hydrogen peroxide, a compound long known for its sanitizing abilities. " I believe that makes it basically the same thing as OxyClean and the amount of sanitizing it can do is small compared to a dedicated sanitizer, such as Star-San of K-Meta Solution. It maybe perfectly fine for that, but, the low cost of both of those dedicated sanitizers means, I'm going to go the extra step and use them.

 

[winemaker81]

a compound long known for its sanitizing abilities

It appears the vendor is pushing the boundaries of advertising, as elsewhere it's stated One Step is not a sanitizer, although it has sanitizing properties.

I agree, K-meta solution and Star San are cheap insurance.

 

[Anna Nelson]

One Step is not a sanitizer, it's a cleaner. Last I checked, the vendor stated this explicitly. My guess is there is some threshold required to classify a product as a "sanitizer", but One Step doesn't meet the definition.

In winemaking, "sanitizing" means reducing the amount of hostile microbial life to below a threshold where it is not a danger to the wine. From my research, a good cleaning does most of the job and may be sufficient. However, I use K-meta solution and/or Star San (occasionally) to ensure my equipment is sanitized.

Both Star San and One Step are no-rinse solutions. I shake off the excess and use the equipment. However, if you're not comfortable doing that, then rinse first. There's a lot of things I understand are fine, but I'm not comfortable doing, so I don't.

Thank you so much. I should have done my homework. So far, no harm done, but I will make the change for sanitizing

 

[winemaker81]

Thank you so much. I should have done my homework. So far, no harm done, but I will make the change for sanitizing

There's a LOT of conflicting information on the net, so don't feel bad about it. I used to follow what LHBS posted in their descriptions, but learned that some simply copy what they believe to be correct. They're not lying, just misinformed, which doesn't help us.

I typically go to manufacturer sites for information, but even then other research may be required, e.g., on a technical site I learned that "sanitizing qualities" doesn't mean a product is a "sanitizer". Advertising and statistics, two ways to lie using facts.