5 gal wood barrel recommendation?

[Ty520]

Can anyone recommend a good source to acquire a small 5 gallon capacity oak barrel for home hobby use?

 

[Jim Welch]

Can anyone recommend a good source to acquire a small 5 gallon capacity oak barrel for home hobby use?

I bought my first barrel a little over a year ago, Hungarian oak from morewine and after my experience with it recently decided to get another.
I just 5 days ago received a 10 gallon American oak barrel from Gibbs Brothers Cooperage in Arkansas. I’ve not aged wine in it yet. The workmanship appears to be impeccable.
I have to say the wines that came out of the Hungarian barrel are very tasty judging from the tastings of samples I pulled for sulphite checks.

https://www.gibbsbrotherscooperage.net

 

[VinesnBines]

Midwest Barrels has 5 gallons - unfortunately they are American oak. The prices are good. I got a couple 10 gallon fresh dumped and have been happy so far.

 

[winemaker81]

Can anyone recommend a good source to acquire a small 5 gallon capacity oak barrel for home hobby use?

New or used? For new there are a lot of choices for $$$$$.

For used you have to hunt a bit. @VinesnBines said the turnover on the Midwest Barrels site is high, so you have to check it daily to get a barrel you want, but it's at a much lower cost.

 

[milw]

Does anyone have hands on experience with Red Head Barrels? I’ve been eyeing their offerings, but don’t know how their pricing compares to other new sources… Red Head Oak Barrels

 

[winemaker81]

Does anyone have hands on experience with Red Head Barrels? I’ve been eyeing their offerings, but don’t know how their pricing compares to other new sources… Red Head Oak Barrels

I have no experience with this vendor, but the first thing I noted was that most of their barrels are tiny, which makes them a poor choice for aging wine due to the interior surface area to volume ratio. The smaller the barrel, the shorter the time a wine can remain in a new(-ish) barrel without absorbing too much oak.

Poking through their site, I get the impression their primary customers are folks who want a pretty decanter, not serious winemakers. Although I'm not in marketing, I pay attention to how companies market their products, as it says a lot about the company.

Looking through their FAQ, one of the questions is: What if a hoop or two falls off the barrel?

URK!!! AFAIK it means the barrels are mass produced junk. There's no way I'd buy from them.

What size are you looking for?

 

[milw]

Oh I’m a total newbie making my first 1 gallon mead trials, about to set up a 5 gallon. I got some french medium toast cubes to try out, and reading about barrels and the volumes you’d need to move through them to keep them in good shape. I’m too small scale for it to make any sense.

 

[winemaker81]

Oh I’m a total newbie making my first 1 gallon mead trials, about to set up a 5 gallon. I got some french medium toast cubes to try out, and reading about barrels and the volumes you’d need to move through them to keep them in good shape. I’m too small scale for it to make any sense.

A barrel is not a container -- a barrel is a commitment. Once put into use, barrels need to be kept full or be otherwise maintained. There are requirements you may not be aware of.

I currently have three ~55 liter barrels, rough 14.5 US gallons each. Two out of three are neutral (no oak character remaining), so I add oak cubes for oak character. IMO the true benefit of a barrel is the evaporation through the wood of water and alcohol, which leaves the other constituents behind. As the barrel is topped up, the wine becomes richer. I lose about 10% volume in the course of a year due to evaporation, so I need to start with 16 US gallons for each barrel. I net less wine but the quality is higher.

Due to the need to keep the barrels full (they dry out and/or grown mold when empty), I cycle wine through on a 12 month basis. When the 2023 wine is ready for barrel, I will bottle what is in the barrels, clean 'em, and fill with the new wine.

My "new" barrel is 2 yo but has had wine in it for about 13 of those months, so I will need to cycle 2 batches through it this year. What I'll do is swap with the wine in one of the older barrels, and I may not add oak cubes to either wine.

With a smaller barrel, say 19 liters / 5 US gallons, the first batch of wine may remain in the barrel as few as 4 weeks (depending on the wine) to avoid over-oaking. So it's necessary to have multiple batches ready to go into the barrel. From what I've read, each batch can remain in barrel about twice as long as its predecessor.

Note that I do not have direct experience with new barrels. Other than my "new" one, my experience is with neutral barrels and the guys that taught me had barrels as old as 30 years. At that time the barrels were older than I was!

There's a lot of detail beyond what I've written, but IMO you're not ready for taking on a barrel. Develop your experience and ramp up your production first.

 

[Ty520]

I have no experience with this vendor, but the first thing I noted was that most of their barrels are tiny, which makes them a poor choice for aging wine due to the interior surface area to volume ratio. The smaller the barrel, the shorter the time a wine can remain in a new(-ish) barrel without absorbing too much oak.

Poking through their site, I get the impression their primary customers are folks who want a pretty decanter, not serious winemakers. Although I'm not in marketing, I pay attention to how companies market their products, as it says a lot about the company.

Looking through their FAQ, one of the questions is: What if a hoop or two falls off the barrel?

URK!!! AFAIK it means the barrels are mass produced junk. There's no way I'd buy from them.

What size are you looking for?

I only go 5 gallons at a time at home, so perhaps it makes more sense to just stick with dominoes and staves

 

[winemaker81]

I only go 5 gallons at a time at home, so perhaps it makes more sense to just stick with dominoes and staves

Do you mean a single 5 gallon batch at a time, or 5 gallons per year?

If you kick a batch up to 6 gallons, a 5 gallon barrel can work for you. However, considering the points I mentioned previously, as you said, it may not be a good choice for you.

 

[David Violante]

Unless of course this is your entry point into barreling~ no? I’m in the same place as @Ty520 and am interested in improving quality as well. I’ve been making 5-6 gallon batches at a time several times a year and was thinking of buying a neutral barrel to use as a starter (entry) barrel in the process for one of those batches.

 

[VinesnBines]

Midwest has the best prices for me on the East Coast. A new five gallon is $149 and although I can find a cheaper price, the shipping is only $24.45. Price is one thing but shipping adds the new dimension. I suggest you make your choice depending on location. I think most barrel vendors are reputable.

I was toying with a new five gallon but decided on a ten gallon, fresh dumped bourbon barrel. I have enough to cycle through a ten gallon. I still would like a five gallon and probably a 15.

Midwest had a sale a few weeks back and EVERYONE will have a Black Friday sale. Keep watch.

 

[winemaker81]

Unless of course this is your entry point into barreling~ no? I’m in the same place as @Ty520 and am interested in improving quality as well. I’ve been making 5-6 gallon batches at a time several times a year and was thinking of buying a neutral barrel to use as a starter (entry) barrel in the process for one of those batches.

It sounds like @Ty520 is not quite where you are. You are in a great position to buy a small barrel, as you have plenty of wine to cycle through it. IMO that's the primary issue, having enough wine to cycle through a new barrel. It's was the primary driver behind me buying neutral barrels (that and good luck in finding them!).

Barrels are not hard to use, but they require care that carboys don't, and as I said, it's a commitment. IMO a good commitment. Note that I also make a fair amount of wine that is not barrel aged, so it's not necessarily an all-or-nothing thing.

I had trepidation in buying that first barrel. Although I had helped others with their barrels, being responsible for my own gave me jitters. My first one, 10 yo, cost $40 and I figured I'd risk that amount ... plus 16 gallons of wine ...

It worked out fine, and 5 years later I have 3 barrels ... yes, they breed like carboys ...

 

[David Violante]

I was afraid you would say that they breed like carboys... My great grandfather had several barrels and according to my grandmother when they moved (a highway was being built where many houses were located) he wasn't interested in much else than watching how they moved the barrels. I'm going to have to do some homework on this next venture, but thank you. And also to you @VinesnBines there are some great barrels on the Midwest site!

 

[winemaker81]

I was afraid you would say that they breed like carboys

They breed a bit slower than carboys or rabbits, but it happens ....

In 2019 I purchased the first 54 liter barrel, and put the second run from Merlot, Malbec, & Zinfandel in it, as none of the 3 first run batches were large enough to fill it. That hooked me, my gateway into barrels.

The following year I decided to do 2 blends, and contacted the acquaintances who sold me the first barrel. Yup, they had another 54 liter and I purchased it. This set me on the path I've been following, doing 2 large batches intended to fill the barrels.

Last year we added the pomace to kit wines, making 2 batches, aging in glass. This summer I tossed up the idea of buying another barrel. If I purchased a new one, I'd be cycling wine between the 3 barrels at least twice, so I dropped the idea. That, plus I'd need to make room for it, and I'm pretty much maxed out.

Then a member of our local buying group was giving away a 56 liter barrel (the stated size and how much the barrel actually holds are not necessarily identical -- @VinesnBines' last 10 gallon barrel holds 11.7 gallons). My son & I texted back-n-forth, and he is willing to host the barrel, eliminating a potential discussion with my management.

Once he thought about it, I suspect he wants to host the barrel, as it will be his responsibility. While we are partners, this puts him on a more equal footing, which IMO is great that he wants it. Doing cements the understanding of learning.

This year we purchased 2 juice buckets instead of kits to add to the pomace, and while these will be fermented as 2 batches, we will blend post-fermentation. This will fill one of the barrels.

Because the "new" barrel had wine in it for only ~13 of the 24 months it's been in use, we may need to swap wine part way through the year. For that reason I'm thinking we'll put the CS or CF into it, and my son will take one of the older barrels (14 yo each) for the bucket wine. Probably around May we'll swap the CS and CF, if we note the wine is getting too much oak.

I mention all this to provide a practical illustration the need for planning. The time a barrel is being filled is a very bad time for a surprise ...

 

[VinesnBines]

I was afraid you would say that they breed like carboys... My great grandfather had several barrels and according to my grandmother when they moved (a highway was being built where many houses were located) he wasn't interested in much else than watching how they moved the barrels. I'm going to have to do some homework on this next venture, but thank you. And also to you @VinesnBines there are some great barrels on the Midwest site!

So I first got the10 gallon maple syrup barrel. I’m barrel fermenting a cider in it now. Just before Thanksgiving, I’ll empty the cider to my corny kegs, clean the barrel and add the 23 Chambourcin. The second barrel I bought was a 10 gallon fresh dump bourbon barrel. When we opened it on arrival, we wanted to crawl inside. The bourbon smell came to meet us. We rinsed it and wanted a giant straw for the dump water. My 22 Chambourcin is resting comfortably in the bourbon barrel. I’m almost tempted to get another maple @ $120 and put either more Chambourcin or Chelois in it. If they drop the price a little more (was $127), I’ll go for it.

 

[Ty520]

Do you mean a single 5 gallon batch at a time, or 5 gallons per year?

If you kick a batch up to 6 gallons, a 5 gallon barrel can work for you. However, considering the points I mentioned previously, as you said, it may not be a good choice for you.

Yes I do 5 gallon batches. My conical has a max a max capacity of 7 and typically start w/ 6 gallons to accommodate for losses during racking

 

[winemaker81]

Yes I do 5 gallon batches. My conical has a max a max capacity of 7 and typically start w/ 6 gallons to accommodate for losses during racking

That clarifies things. You have several options for using a barrel. One is to increase batch size to fermenter capacity. Another is to have several batches upon which you can draw for barrel topup.

You also need to consider that "barrel size" is a predicted value, and the reality can be different, e.g., a 5 gallon barrel may actually hold 5.25 or 5.50 gallons. Or 4.75.

Do your planning, and if things line up, do it!

 

[cmullin]

Smaller wood casks can over oak things pretty fast. I would check out bad motivator barrels. They only have wood on one side, but accuracy simulate the exposure in a 55 gallon barrel. . They are designed for spirits, but wine should work just fine. Badmotivator Legacy Barrels

 

[JBP]

Looking at Midwest Barrels (fresh-dumped) in addition to other options. What type of schedule should I expect in starting one of these? Have they given up a significant amount of oak compared to a brand new barrel? Balancing pros and cons of (1) MoreWineMaking Hungarian ($$), (2) fresh-dumped bourbon barrel - American oak or (3) new American oak