a baffled -- and maybe desperate -- beginner

[wine newbee]

My 1st time here (and I'm glad I found the website; not a minute too soon) ...

I've talked to folks, looked at some videos, gone to a brewer's supply place and schmoozed for info; some good, some contradictory, some .... well, I don't get some of it.

I'm trying to make muscadine wine from ~33 lb. of grapes. I'm unemployed now and trying to do things on the cheap (sad but honest). That cuts out some bells and whistles -- which could be needed; I dunno.

I soaked several plastic buckets with a Cl solution and rinsed each. Smashed all the grapes (after soaking them very briefly in a vinegar solution and dousing them with near-boiling water, to eliminate some wild yeasts). Managed to get ~2.2 gal juice; to get the solution to near the bucket's top, I added nearly 1 gallon of distilled water [I was told to avoid City water]. Total volume = 3 gal.

The juice was room temp (80 F) this a.m. I added a yeast nutritional supplement, mixed gently, then added my 5 g packet of lalvin EC-1118 yeast (not sure this was the correct amount OR even the necessary yeast form). Also added 2 cups sugar per gallon (I've heard several differing amounts to be used, and just settled on 2/gal).

That was at 7 a.m. today. Since then: not 1 single gas bubble coming out of the air lock! I've successfully made mead this year, and the gas production began as soon as I added the yeast.

Any ideas? Could some chlorine residue have killed off the yeast?! Wrong yeast? If so, would baker's yeast do? Wrong amount of sugar to vol juice? My data just before yeast-adding was SG = 1.08, sugar content 20%, alcohol % expected = 10.

Any and all comments welcomed. My town has no supply store (nearest one's in Raleigh, an hour away), so I can't just scoot up there whenever I find I lack some important thing.

Thx much; I'm also in a beekeeping forum, and that's been a lifesaver re: my bee adventure. I'm hoping this site is the same re: my wine ......

 

[salcoco]

first there was no need to wash your grapes with vinegar, vinegar is spoiled wine not a good idea use potassium metabisulphite in future.

second fermentation normally does not start for a period of 24-48 hours after adding yeast. the yeast selection you have made is fine. stir the must a couple times a day fermentation should start soon.

Also do not use chlorine on any tools or buckets used for wine. the chlorine molecules can affect the wine in a adverse way. next visit to your supply shop ask for a sanitizing product for wine.

 

[mainshipfred]

Wow, I really didn't want to respond and hopefully others will chime and say I'm wrong. Chlorine and vinegar are no no's in the wine world. The fermentation not starting at this point is not a big concern as sometimes it just takes a little longer.

 

[beano]

If you tossed your yeast at 7:00am this morning basically it been 7 hours. Wait 24 hours and see what's going on then. Might be a big diffence then. Patience is the key. Let us know and welcome to WMT.

 

[Scooter68]

Beware of YouTube Videos on just about anything DIY - Read more watch less.

AND visit this site a LOT.

 

[cmason1957]

If you tossed your yeast at 7:00am this morning basically it been 7 hours. Wait 24 hours and see what's going on then. Might be a big diffence then. Patience is the key. Let us know and welcome to WMT.

If at 7 AM on Saturday or Sunday, you don't have fermentation started, then there might be something to worry about. 48-72 hours isn't a terrible time to wait for it to start.

 

[beano]

This is true.I've had more than one that had a long lag time starting for various reasons. Wait and watch.

 

[wine newbee]

It's appreciated, guys; I spoke with somebody later today (supply shop employee) who asked me how far the must surface was from the bucket lid. I said, "About an inch or so", and he laughed: "What you have, is a bomb". I've since decanted enough for the must surface to be ~ 5 inches or so from the lid. The XS went into another bucket -- the guy said I could just add it back when the fermentation in the primary bucket settled. He also suggested that my lalvin E-1118 was maybe "too aggressive" for my muscadine wine. I brainlessly didn't follow up as to what might be better. Any ideas?

Good to know re: the CL and vinegar. I'm maybe paranoid about bacterial/alien yeast invasion, so I was doing everything I could think (short of buying the tablets/sanitizers/etc or using radiation) to treat the grapes.

Again, much obliged for the helpful comments and ideas. It's like when I first began beekeeping -- knowing I don't know anything, but eager to learn..... and trying to be a skeptic about YouTube videos.

 

[Scooter68]

Whatever you use for washing whether it's dishwashing liquid, PBW (Powder Brewers Wash), One step etc. RINSE RINSE RINSE. ( I use the most bland dishwashing liquid I can find I rinse until I don't see any more bubbles then rinse twice more.)

Get yourself some StarSan concentrate for sanitizing. Even a small bottle will go a L O N G way for you. I mix up 1 gallon at a time and that only takes 6ml of starsan. (1 ounce makes 5 gallons of Sanitizing solution) It keeps very well and if you use Distilled water quite a long time.

If you use Starsan to sanitize you don't need to rinse that. The foam clings to things and after 30 seconds to a minute you're done, set it aside to dry.
There are several other no-rinse sanitizers and they do mean it. Rinsing is not needed or recommended. (If I have to rinse - I use Distilled water.)

 

[Rice_Guy]

* god invented grape as the ideal substrate to make wine with. . . it happens in nature without any intervention, without worrying about sanitation, man’s role has been at selecting tweeks that taste better for millennia. What you have done should work, , , god is on your side.
* OK chlorine is involved in an off flavor which relates to cork corks (TCA) I would not use cork on the finished but reuse screw cap bottles, or synthetic corks.
* sounds like you don’t have a hygrometer (sugar measure), As a reference, the goal at start of fermentation is to be a little sweeter than Welches grape juice and roughly half as sweet as frozen apple concentrate. (Normal start is a gravity of 1.090 , , giving 11% alcohol, , It will work higher and lower)
Adding water and sugar makes a “thin” flavor wine. To increase the flavor you can add frozen juice concentrate when finished. (lookup F-pack, on this forum) This may restart fermentation which we fix by adding sorbate. Of course you can drink it as is or use it like a sangria and add fruit juice as you drink it.
* mom’s grape juice might have boiling water at the start. This probably pulls extra pectin from the grape and produces a haze. You can drink it with a haze (maybe 20% of fruit wines at the last contest had this) or if it is objectionable add pectin enzyme.

Good luck

 

[Gerry Congleton]

Not a reply, but a somewhat similar concern. I started a 5 gal. kit about 60 hours ago and have yet to see an evidence of perking. Temps have been 69-70 degrees. The kit came with oak chips (2) which I added according to directions, stirred very well added the yeast and covered the container. The container, which I bought locally, is made for winemaking, but it has a loose fitting cover. Could the loose cover be the reason I do not see any perking? Should I seal the cover? I did lift the cover and the oak chips are easily visible and floating on top of the mix. Is that a problem? This is a Cabernet Sauvignon kit. Need help!

 

[wine newbee]

Hi, Gerry; being a beginner's beginner, I won't presume to give advice, but .... the local experienced guys tell me that -- depending on the yeast used -- it's not unusual for gas production to start (en evidence) as long as 72 hrs [or more!] after pitching. One old timer asked me if the lid of my bucket was actually air-tight. I wasn't sure, so he said it probably wasn't, and that the gas is being produced but escaping from under the lid. He also said that it shouldn't be a concern, and maybe I wouldn't see any bubbles at all coming through my air lock.

That's a little comforting to me; when I open the bucket to stir the must, I see tons of big bubbles on the mixture's surface, so I know lots is going on .....

 

[Scooter68]

By perking are you talking about an airlock in a plastic lid?
Those are NEVER a good way to identify if fermentation has begun.

If you really want to check it out rely on your hydrometer.

You can try wetting down the seal on that plastic lid then snapping it down and it might give you a better seal, for a day or a few hours until the seal drires out again. (Been there done that)

 

[bshef]

Gerry, I second Scooter68 about the hydrometer. After countless batches of fruit wines and fresh Concord, I made a batch with kit Cab Sav juice. I didn't have a single bubble in the primary but according to my hydrometer it fermented perfectly and right on time. I didn't airlock the primary; I used a bucket with towel and aerated (stirred) twice a day.

 

[Gerry Congleton]

Yes. I have not sen any bubbling from the air-lock. The cover is not meant to seal (I guess). It's a container made for winemaking and is made in Canada. It has all of the lines for gallons, etc. I have tried to seal the top by using tape around the lid.
I have been hesitant to remove the cover, but I will use the hydrometer to see if anything is happening.
Thanks for the info, much appreciated!!

 

[Gerry Congleton]

bshef,
I will follow what you did and see what happens.
Thanks for the help!

 

[bshef]

I don't think you need to worry about an airtight seal in the primary. I was at a commercial winery over the weekend and the winemaker said you quit worrying about contamination after you have fallen in the fermenter, boots and all.

 

[Gerry Congleton]

I don't think you need to worry about an airtight seal in the primary. I was at a commercial winery over the weekend and the winemaker said you quit worrying about contamination after you have fallen in the fermenter, boots and all.

I have removed the top, stirred for a couple of minutes and used the hydrometer. The measurement when I first started was 1.090. After 3 days the hydrometer measured 1.080. Is that good? Bad? Or, meaningless?
I did find one boot in the juice!

 

[Gerry Congleton]

See above!

 

[bshef]

I think you should stir a couple times a day (take out the boot - it's done). Keep checking with the hydrometer. It sounds like it is working. You might toss in another pack of yeast. Hope more experienced winemakers chime in.