WineXpert Anyone know for sure???

[Boatboy24]

Lol. You are close, very close. That was part of the process to the discovery.

All in the name of science, eh?

 

[Tnuscan]

Oops! I thought there were only a few of us on here. I'll be back after I finish this bottle.

 

[Boatboy24]

Like many of the media outlets that promise information, but just show commercial after commercial to keep me watching, you are about to lose my interest.

 

[dcbrown73]

Oops! I thought there were only a few of us on here. I'll be back after I finish this bottle.

At least tell us the name of the wine so we have a brand to associate this commercial break with!

 

[Tnuscan]

Like many of the media outlets that promise information, but just show commercial after commercial to keep me watching, you are about to lose my interest.

Sorry. I was trying to beat the storm and meant no disrespect. This information will not affect you I don't believe. What I have discovered may affect only a few. Probably will help beginners or maybe not. I don't think it is new information, but no one shared it with me in my posts. So I hope this offends no one but maybe helps a few. My KIT wines have suffered a little for a while, (years as a mater of fact). I occasionally make fruit wines with no ill effects. ( I hope). I don't have the ability to test nor do I know how, to the extent I want. I feel it is because of what's in the processing of the kits, for instance No MLF, or the heating of it during the pasteurization process. The culprit for me is ( SMS ) Sodium Metabisulphite in the form of Campden Tablets, fighting with the processes {used in the making of the kits}.. I used to use Campden Tablets with Potassium Metabisulphite and I have bought SMS covered by price tags from local shops by mistake. I was always under the impression they were the same thing. If you have a sensitive palate, They Are Not. SMS or Sodium Metabisulphite has more of a sulfuric smell and taste ( to me at least) than Potassium Metabisulphite or K-meta.
I can even tell a small difference between Campden Tablets and bulk campden powder in bags. I also think ( and will test to make sure) that I (or we ) may be over sulphiting from cleaning carboy, cleaning bottles and sulphiting the 1/4 tsp for 6 gallons, especially if using SMS as directed.

So here is MY thought or Conclusion of my tests so far. Do Not use Sodium Metabisulphite in Tablet or powder form. (if sensitive to it) . Instead only use Potassium Metabisulphite K-Meta in powder (bulk package) at 1/4 teaspoon per 6 gal.
And see if you can tell a difference. (I sure can).

 

[Tnuscan]

At least tell us the name of the wine so we have a brand to associate this commercial break with!

It might help to read thread from beginning?

 

[Tnuscan]

At least tell us the name of the wine so we have a brand to associate this commercial break with!

Lol . Sorry I understood your post wrong. Your clever, I'm slow.

 

[Boatboy24]

Was just giving you a hard time.

Thanks for the update. While I've never used the Sodium, I agree that the preference would be for Potassium. I think most people here would tell you that both would work, but you should always for Potassium if possible. Glad you've nailed this down.

 

[JohnT]

I am so sure of this (little culprit) that I believe the wine kit manufacturers should add this ==DO NOT DO THIS== to their instructions. It will save them and you a lot of headaches.

Anyone interested??? @JohnT LOL

You disappoint me. I thought you would surely say "Use Welch's"..

 

[Tnuscan]

Was just giving you a hard time.

Thanks for the update. While I've never used the Sodium, I agree that the preference would be for Potassium. I think most people here would tell you that both would work, but you should always for Potassium if possible. Glad you've nailed this down.

Thanks!
At one time I purchased the campden tabs with k-meta along with a 1lb bag of k-meta. The 1lb bag was only used with water to sanitize everything. The tabs I used in the wine @1 per gallon. This was done only to keep things simple. I then bought other bags of campden tabs and didn't realize they had switched to Sodium, These bags were combined without noticing they were different. And this is where my troubles began.

 

[Tnuscan]

You disappoint me. I thought you would surely say "Use Welch's"..

Thanks!
That was a good one, I needed a good laugh.

 

[Tnuscan]

After reading about Sodium Metabisulphite being used to sanitize equipment, and then suggesting NOT to be used in must or winemaking process, makes me wonder how many Funny, Weird, Strange smells and tastes could be linked to ( SMS ) being used.

 

[Johnd]

After reading about Sodium Metabisulphite being used to sanitize equipment, and then suggesting NOT to be used in must or winemaking process, makes me wonder how many Funny, Weird, Strange smells and tastes could be linked to ( SMS ) being used.

I read very early on in my winemaking journey that it was for sanitizing, not for winemaking, I've never purchased it for either, so it's never made its way into my wine,

 

[Tnuscan]

So... Is there a way to Completely remove all traces of smell and taste of SMS from a wine, then apply k-meta, without hurting the wine.

Would degassing from carboy to carboy with the AIO 4 to 5 complete times do it???

 

[dcbrown73]

So... Is there a way to Completely remove all traces of smell and taste of SMS from a wine, then apply k-meta, without hurting the wine.

Would degassing from carboy to carboy with the AIO 4 to 5 complete times do it???

If it works the same way its potassium counterpart works, (by freeing sulfur dioxide) it could be done though I'm not sure at what rate it would dissipate and if that rate and exposure to oxygen would negatively affect the wine. Using the AIO from carboy to carboy (negative pressure and minimal oxygen exposure, too bad you can argon purge the outgoing carboy) to me would sound the most promising way I could think of on the cheap. (that is if it works the same way) and safer than using a one of those stirring whips to free the sulfur dioxide.

Basically, I don't know but logically. It seems like a sound idea.

 

[Tnuscan]

So after a little thought I believe this is what I will do.

Check each carboy at 3 months, if I detect the taste from the SMS rack between carboys a few times with the AIO add k-meta, then check again in another 3 months. At the end of 9 months k-meta and bottle.

I'm just thankful I was able to figure out my problem. No more Sodium Metabisulphite allowed around my wine making. lol

 

[Tnuscan]

Well it's time to eat crow. I did find out Not to use SMS tablets in your must and wine making, it adds off flavors and smells. But this has not been my problem in the past with these kits, because I followed the instructions to the T, and only used the sulphite that came with the kit, which would be Potassium.

I do have another experiment, in process, that I have omitted all the packets from the kit except for the bentonite. I am using K-meta from bulk, and not the K-meta from the kit, trying to see if this eliminates this " sour" smell/taste.

The reason I split a merlot kit into 4 separate 1.5 gallon batches was to see if the yeast might be the culprit. Batch 3# was jinxed on the start by using yeast from 2013 by mistake, and also because of using SMS campden tablets.

Truth is I need to wear glasses and don't half the time, assuming the tablets were Potassium, I wasted time and effort. That's why I'm using the avatar of Magoo. lol I've thrown out all SMS and will order new kit and start this experiment over.

Sorry for the confusion, I should be starting this by mid week.

 

[jgmann67]

I'm enjoying this thread and hope you can finally put your finger on it. But, I think that ultimately, no matter what you do, you're going to find that KT (or sour taste... Whatever) will exist with some kits. Time may be the only thing to push it to the background or fade it away completely.

 

[Tnuscan]

I'm enjoying this thread and hope you can finally put your finger on it. But, I think that ultimately, no matter what you do, you're going to find that KT (or sour taste... Whatever) will exist with some kits. Time may be the only thing to push it to the background or fade it away completely.

Thanks!
Finding the answer may be out of my grasp.( I'm betting I do. ) Trying to figure this out is definitely improving my wine making, and understanding of it, so all is not lost.

I guess I just have a very sensitive palate. There have not been as many responses, as I had figured there would be, maybe most people just stay silent. Some of the kits are so strong with it, that it makes it hard to enjoy the wine. That's the only reason some bottles have made it to 2 years. And it was still there at 2 years.
It is most definitely a kit problem, because it is not in my homemade fruit wines. Also I have never noticed it in any commercial wines.

Oh well, it's all about having fun, and learning. And I get to enjoy a little buzz along the journey.

 

[Johnd]

So here's a little tidbit to throw in. I was running an MLF paper chromo on my Zinfandel from grapes, it's been going about 10 days. Had an extra space on the paper and decided to run the Stags Leap Merlot, the SLM column. The SLM is 6 months old and just went into the barrel. You can see that it has similar malic acid profile as the Zin. Malic is a stronger than lactic acid contributing to the sour taste in apples. I'm not saying the SLM is sour, but it is a kit. Wonder what the acid profile looks like on others........ I'm going to run some as I keep testing the Zin.

I've always heard: "no MLF on kits, they're balanced", plus there's the sorbate / geranium issue which will ruin a wine. I assumed the malic was somehow dealt with in the kit making stage. It appears not. If the kit juice isn't stabilized by the manufacturer with sorbate (a big if) why couldn't it be MLF'd? Wouldn't it have the same effect on the wine as one from grapes? Rounder, smoother, etc........... Could it be responsible for some sourness? Has anyone ever MLF'd a kit?

Admittedly, tartaric adjustments might be in order post kit MLF, but that's manageable. What say you?