APPLE WINE

[winemaker81]

This made me think -- I'd much rather have someone tell me something obvious I should know, than not tell me because I should know. We don't always think of everything, and sometimes the missing obvious thing is the answer. This is certainly true for me.

It's good to go through a common checklist, eliminate easy things before digging into problem solving. One time my supervisor, who was working at a remote office, called me -- the office printer wasn't working. We spent 20 minutes testing everything, me talking him through things over the phone. Unplugging and replugging cables, rebooting the PC, trying different programs, printing from other PCs. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Then a thought occurred to me -- "Larry, is the printer turned on?"

We laughed about that for years.

 

[hounddawg]

One of the beautiful properties of pectic enzyme, is that it can be added at anytime, in any reasonable quantity, and it will not taint your wine.

I should clarify for the extremists, it cannot be overdosed if used reasonably. If you add a 1 pound bag to a 6 gallon carboy, you’re on your own cowboy.

but Johnd I'm 5/8 native American Cherokee, Cheyenne, Comanche 1/4 Irish and 1/8 English,,, me make firewater not war,, lol
and thank you, i thought that, but was not sure
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

as stated i added pectic enzyme before racking to secondary, so in carboys 3 & 4 that midway strip of wine has grown from 1 & 1/2 to about 2 & 1/2,, but that gives me hope for my next racking in February,,,
Dawg

 

[Rice_Guy]

Pectin enzyme is less active in alcohol, ie once the ferment is done.

One of the beautiful properties of pectic enzyme, is that it can be added at anytime, in any reasonable quantity, and it will not taint your wine.

I should clarify for the extremists, it cannot be overdosed if used reasonably. If you add a 1 pound bag to a 6 gallon carboy, you’re on your own cowboy.

 

[hounddawg]

Pectin enzyme is less active in alcohol, ie once the ferment is done.

yup. works way slower, but time works on most everything
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

yeah, i knew the answers but when i freaked, well i wanted reassurance lol , but it caused me to do some research, I've only ever used powdered pectic enzyme. but while researching, i found out according to some site i read, that liquid pectic enzyme works better, but it did not explain why, so my question is liquid pectic enzyme what's different, because when i put PE in my wine it becomes liquid, so that means there is something different in liquid PE? yes/no ?
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

ah, i see,,, after diving deeper i understand the many types and mixes for different combinations of enzymes, a few years back i had found some that worked great with pear, but lost that web address, never found it again, live and learn,
Dawg

 

[Arne]

Had a couple of mice get in the house a few years ago. One thing I found they liked was the liquid pectic enzime. Ate right thru the bottle. Lucky little fellows went straight to mouse heaven. Havn't had mouse problems since. Don't know how they got in, but resolved the problem somehow. Maybe the cat keeps em away. Arne.

 

[Rice_Guy]

* all enzymes are sold based on how active they are, (International Units of activity), enzymes are proteins that catalyze a specific reaction, to do this they have an active shape that fits the chemistry, most commercial enzymes are produced in a fungal fermentation kinda like brewing beer, but traditional forms as calf stomach rennet are recovered from animals (fungal rennet is cheaper), I don’t know if there is a standard salt to add in manufacturing but likely
* a dry enzyme has had a lot of damage done to the molecule in the process of removing the liquid (usually freeze drying) and making a powder, this is sorta like cooking your egg for breakfast, it turns hard, to stabilize the enzyme BSA is added (the clear liquid/ protein from cow blood), dry enzymes should be protected from humidity/ moisture and heat, no the enzyme doesn’t really melt in but behave like egg white in water and stay suspended
* liquid enzymes start out like dry enzymes as a fermentation product, they are concentrated and also stabilized with BSA, for best stability they need to be refrigerated, liquid forms are easier to produce so the activity is good,,,, HOWEVER,,, in general a liquid enzyme will not tolerate abusive storage/ shipping conditions as well as a dry form.
* the key in both forms is food industry folks buy based on the activity units

but it caused me to do some research, I've only ever used powdered pectic enzyme. but while researching, i found out according to some site i read, that liquid pectic enzyme works better, but it did not explain why, so my question is liquid pectic enzyme what's different, because when i put PE in my wine it becomes liquid, so that means there is something different in liquid PE? yes/no

for home usage the dry ones last and liquid forms have shelf life issues

 

[hounddawg]

* all enzymes are sold based on how active they are, (International Units of activity), enzymes are proteins that catalyze a specific reaction, to do this they have an active shape that fits the chemistry, most commercial enzymes are produced in a fungal fermentation kinda like brewing beer, but traditional forms as calf stomach rennet are recovered from animals (fungal rennet is cheaper), I don’t know if there is a standard salt to add in manufacturing but likely
* a dry enzyme has had a lot of damage done to the molecule in the process of removing the liquid (usually freeze drying) and making a powder, this is sorta like cooking your egg for breakfast, it turns hard, to stabilize the enzyme BSA is added (the clear liquid/ protein from cow blood), dry enzymes should be protected from humidity/ moisture and heat, no the enzyme doesn’t really melt in but behave like egg white in water and stay suspended
* liquid enzymes start out like dry enzymes as a fermentation product, they are concentrated and also stabilized with BSA, for best stability they need to be refrigerated, liquid forms are easier to produce so the activity is good,,,, HOWEVER,,, in general a liquid enzyme will not tolerate abusive storage/ shipping conditions as well as a dry form.
* the key in both forms is food industry folks buy based on the activity units

for home usage the dry ones last and liquid forms have shelf life issues

that was it, i knew when i helped the old timers they used calf stomach rennet, i'd forgotten it was not for the yeast, been many years ago, a double thank you @Rice_Guy, yeah what you said is what i'd researched, along with different mixtures for different types of fruits berries and tons on many other things, my panic on my apple was of course premature, since it is slowly making more wine, i believe i will wait till i get 4#,-6 gal carboys of all liquid, before i add the rest of my cinnamon sticks and whole allspice seeds/nuts what ever them things are called, this is my first time with cinnamon sticks and allspice, again thank you for your time and knowledge
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

man that 20 grams allspice and 3 cinnamon sticks per 6 gl carboy smells awfully good, still got just under 10 gl, apple sauce, but it is turning to wine from bottom up, them are the only 2 that not got cinnamon or allspice in yet,
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

One of the beautiful properties of pectic enzyme, is that it can be added at anytime, in any quantity, and it will not taint your wine.tt

I should clarify for the extremists, it cannot be overdosed if used reasonably. If you add a 1 pound bag to a 6 gallon carboy, you’re on your own cowboy.

so pale face with straight tongue @Johnd , LOL, funny how you know exactly the answer yet even after years you get insecure,,, so i had 1# 6 of wine and better than 3# 6's of apple sauce, now two 6's of wine and better than 2# 6's of apple sauce, every time i look at them i think of you and smile, wine is like a trip, the journey can be as sweet as the end product, the first 6 i had added 3 sticks of cinnamon from Sir Lanka and 20 grams of allspice from Jamaica, even with limited smell, it smells heavenly, so looks like by end game all 4 will end up as spiced apple,
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

so last night i saw 2 of my apple sauce (cake) carboys were better then half wine in the bottom, but the sauce (cake) had grown and was coming out the airlocks, so being Wyle e coyote super genius, i hosed off the carboys and pulled airlocks and bungs, i had a cake lava flow, i think now i own more land, i was like oh shoot you moron you knew to have equipment ready , but now i have 3 carboys of mainly wine and 1 carboy of sauce (cake),, so I'll re-sorbate everything here in a few days,
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

since I'd ended up fermenting my apple wine on the skins and flesh, it is probably more accurate to call it apple cider, don't know,,, so i have 4- 6 gallon carboys bulk aging, 2 are straight up apple cider and 2 are spiced apple cider, with all spice and 3 cinnamon sticks in each of the 2 carboys,
Dawg

 

[Arne]

And the big question is "drumroll" How's it taste?

 

[hounddawg]

And the big question is "drumroll" How's it taste?

still in carboys, I plan to rack it when i rack my skeeter pee at same sitting, since i have that room rather cool for my bulk aging, so my skeeter is down to only SG 1.060 in almost 2 weeks, as soon as the skeeter pee is ready for the rest of the lemon mixed into ferment barrel then rack my 4 carboys of apple and rack my skeeter pee to its secondary, i use a 1 micron filter on my whites, ,I ain't in a big hurry, the guy that dose my labels I guess wants to retire young,,, with the prices he's now charging,,,, so I'm buying me a color laser printer, just what I'm bulk aging the labels will cover the printer,,,,
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

wine been sitting a little while, #2-6's apple, #2-6's spiced apple using both cinnamon and all spice, everything has kinda settled with a few lees, so tonight i racked all 4 carboys, will let them sit awhile, funny, this is the only time i have made a couple batches with out tasting after ferment, both have good color, the spiced is just a little darker,
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

What are you adding besides? The honey crisp here also got prarie fire crab and after I rack the plan is to put in some heated honey (brouchet)

i got a few pounds now of crab apples, soon as i get 40lb pears and 20lb of granny smith and 20 lbs of either Lodi apple or red delicious, I'LL be making 9 gallons of my secret\ favorite wine, bins the crabapple are dried i figure 1 pound will do the trick, i put several pounds of dried yellow sergeants crabapples,, stocked up,,,, lol
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

for my tastes on apple & banana wines i find , 1 stick of cinnamon ,, an 5 grams all spice i find are plenty per 6 gallons of lite flavor country wines,,,
Dawg

 

[wrongway]

Awesome Dawg!!!