blackberry high TA

[terroirdejeroir]

I have a batch of 100% blackberry juice that has just finished fermentation. I had hoped the 71B yeast would metabolize more of the malic acid, but my TA is at 1.35% with a pH of 3.32. It is, of course, quite tart. I am looking for suggestions from people that have successfully made this type of wine.

I remember reading a couple of good threads about this situation, but I can't seem to locate them on the site. Any advice or links would be welcome.

 

[Stressbaby]

Here is the one most folks refer to:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38273

My straight juice batch from last year was adjusted up preferment from 2.79 to 3.4. Used 71B and at two months it was 3.50 and ended up pretty good, though I never checked TA and never went back and checked the pH again.
My straight juice batch from this year was adjusted up preferment from 2.98 to 3.28. Used 71B and at two months it is 3.17! My tasting notes indicate that it was "not very sharp at all," or at least perhaps not as sharp as 3.17 would suggest. So my thought was the 71B worked pretty well on the malic. But we like wines with some bite.

Maybe this should be our excuse to get together and compare notes and wines. My Syrah is off and I could use some thoughts on it.

 

[Scooter68]

Fresh out of fermentation ? It should be tart, If you eat a blackberry that hasn't fully ripened you will get a similar taste. Having fermented away all the sugar it should be tart and will remain so until it's well aged.

Not time to worry about that. The pH is only a shade low (acidic) so I would just give it at least 3-4 months before checking it again.

As for the acidity actually if you look at some commercial wines I've seen lables with a pH of 3.18 so you are fine, just give it time - Patience.

 

[terroirdejeroir]

Here is the one most folks refer to:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38273

My straight juice batch from last year was adjusted up preferment from 2.79 to 3.4. Used 71B and at two months it was 3.50 and ended up pretty good, though I never checked TA and never went back and checked the pH again.
My straight juice batch from this year was adjusted up preferment from 2.98 to 3.28. Used 71B and at two months it is 3.17! My tasting notes indicate that it was "not very sharp at all," or at least perhaps not as sharp as 3.17 would suggest. So my thought was the 71B worked pretty well on the malic. But we like wines with some bite.

Maybe this should be our excuse to get together and compare notes and wines. My Syrah is off and I could use some thoughts on it.

Would love to, available most evenings and weekends. How is your Syrah off?

 

[Stressbaby]

Would love to, available most evenings and weekends. How is your Syrah off?

Well, the color is poor for starters. After doing some more reading, it seems that the typical Syrah color doesn't come as easily as I thought. I didn't use Lallzyme or a cold soak and I should have.

More importantly, there is somewhat of a bitter aftertaste. The only thing I can think of is that I overpressed or possibly crushed some seeds. I fined a small portion and it may be somewhat better.

I will email you tomorrow.

 

[Turock]

Stressbaby----If the wine has a bitter aftertaste, then BE SURE to bulk age it for at least 1 year, and maybe more like 1 1/2 years. You'd be surprised how bulk aging can remove offensive components from a wine.

 

[salcoco]

bitter tasting wine maybe high tannin content. fining with gelatin will help.

 

[Stressbaby]

Stressbaby----If the wine has a bitter aftertaste, then BE SURE to bulk age it for at least 1 year, and maybe more like 1 1/2 years. You'd be surprised how bulk aging can remove offensive components from a wine.

bitter tasting wine maybe high tannin content. fining with gelatin will help.

Actually on a trial basis I fined a test portion with albumin and it is much better. But I do plan on bulk aging this wine for a year.

Sorry for the threadjack terroir.

 

[Turock]

Unless you added a ton of tannin to the ferment, it is very unlikely that the bitterness is caused by tannin. Blackberry is not high in tannin. Could the bitterness be from seeds? Something you always need to be concerned about when fermenting fruit with small seeds. If too many get over in the secondary, it could make the wine bitter.

 

[Stressbaby]

Unless you added a ton of tannin to the ferment, it is very unlikely that the bitterness is caused by tannin. Blackberry is not high in tannin. Could the bitterness be from seeds? Something you always need to be concerned about when fermenting fruit with small seeds. If too many get over in the secondary, it could make the wine bitter.

Turock, I think maybe I confused you by threadjacking Terroir here. My bitterness problem was a Syrah. Terroir's blackberry issue is related to acidity.

 

[Turock]

Oh, got ya now. There's no doubt that a wine like Syrah should be bulk aged, and I still view it from the perspective that longer term aging may get rid of all of the bitterness. Did you add tannin to the ferment?

Bulk aging should always be tried first because otherwise you're manipulating a young wine. This is never a good idea because you can't adequately evaluate a flavor profile on young wines. At the best, it can be a waste of time and at the worst, you can over-adjust. I had a Sangiovese that had an ODD flavor profile after 1 year of bulk aging. I decided it just needs to continue bulk aging and I'd check it out in its 2nd year. What a difference! Syrah has always turned out well for us--big and deep flavor profile after bulk aging. Your PH is pretty low--have you SO2'd this wine? An MLF would certainly help it. Have you considered that?

 

[Stressbaby]

Oh, got ya now. There's no doubt that a wine like Syrah should be bulk aged, and I still view it from the perspective that longer term aging may get rid of all of the bitterness. Did you add tannin to the ferment?

Bulk aging should always be tried first because otherwise you're manipulating a young wine. This is never a good idea because you can't adequately evaluate a flavor profile on young wines. At the best, it can be a waste of time and at the worst, you can over-adjust. I had a Sangiovese that had an ODD flavor profile after 1 year of bulk aging. I decided it just needs to continue bulk aging and I'd check it out in its 2nd year. What a difference! Syrah has always turned out well for us--big and deep flavor profile after bulk aging. Your PH is pretty low--have you SO2'd this wine? An MLF would certainly help it. Have you considered that?

Sorry, you lost me again. The Syrah was from CA grapes. pH 3.65 preferment, TA 0.50%. I gave it just a whiff of tartaric, no added tannin. It came through sequential MLF like a champ and has been sulfited. The pH post-AF and post-MLF is 3.50.