Other bzac Kit Tweaking Post

[Rocky]

I have 18 gallons of Brunello currently in MLF. I decided to buy a 40L Vadai barrel. After a lot of reading, I decided it would be best to break the barrel in a bit before putting the Brunello in. I want a significant amount of barrel time (at least 3-4 months) for it. I also have two Cellar Craft Showcase Argentinean Malbec kits with grape skin packs that I was going to start the break in with. I've read your posts re the Chardonnay barrel ferments for the first fill of the barrel. How do you feel about using the Malbec instead?

Frank, Malbec would be fine. The reasons people recommend Chardonnay (or any other white) for the first use of the barrel are:

1. it is a white wine that is sometimes oaked, and, most importantly,
2. if you plan to barrel age a white wine with a new barrel, the first uses of the barrel are your only opportunity to do so. Once you barrel age a red and then try a white you will end up with a "blush" wine from the residual color left in the barrel.

 

[FRANKC]

Thanks. I could have planned this better. Our 150 gallons of Chardonnay are already off the lees and getting lightly oaked, so I won't be using that, and dont really want to do more. My Vadai 40 L arrived today and I'm anxious to start using it.I decided to start the Malbec now and I'm tweaking the kit - no clearing/fining agents. I'm going to do it naturally, so it won't be ready for the barrel for a while. My brunello is just coming out of MLF. I decided to start 11 of the 18 gallons in the barrel, play chess in and out with the unoaked 7 gallons. I know the brunello can take a lot of oak. I'll move the Malbec in when its ready. I might try to slip some sangiovese in. At some point I'll rotate the brunello back in. Not exactly what I had planned but I'm sure it will work out.

 

[RCGoodin]

I love these tweaking ideas.

 

[littlepriest]

...

1. Use a yeast which can handle concentrates , 95% of the time you are best off to use the yeast that comes with the kit. Other wise read the yeast manufacturers description of the yeast many are listed as concentrate friendly. ... using d47 yeast but this yeast is nutrient demanding (or it will produce H2S) so he adds Fermaid on day 2 and 5 , 1 tsp . His more adventurous customers have tried this with good results . I have tasted two wines he did one as per , the other with barrel fermenting and D47 , the latter I liked more. Doing this sort of thing does violate your warranty
though...

I know it's an old post but really, the advice on using other yeasts than supplied with kits is not accurate.

Usually the yeasts supplied are only one variety, maybe two: either EC1118 or K1V1116, which are bullet proof but add no varietal character (as confirmed by the manufacturer's own assessment on their web site -- http://www.lalvinyeast.com/strains.asp).

Anything will ferment to completion with no H2S with EC1118, but it's the "processed-cheese" of winemaking.

D47 is a nutrient hog but nutrient is a very inexpensive addition to your winemaking. Add it liberally (per instructions, I mean) at the beginning and at 1/3 and 2/3 of the way through fermentation. You can use the same schedule for any yeast. A bit of excess nutrient will not hurt your wine (not like H2S!).

The Web is full of excellent -- very quickly accessible -- instructions on making yeast happy to prevent H2S. To say that using the yeast that comes with a kit is just saying give up on variety and a bit of experimentation. I mean, there are only 4 mainstream yeasts that most suppliers carry for home winemakers, D47 being one of them. Try it but use in a way that it likes, and it will make great white wines.

 

[David Taylor]

Great thread! I just picked up a WE Select Valroza red wine kit cheap off of Craigs List from someone who closed a store. I was going to tweak it with Zante Currant raisins, oak, and Tannin. I opened it up and saw that it has a dried elderberry pack and am wondering if the raisins will compete or overpower the elderberries. Any recommendations?

 

[joeswine]

If it came with a fpac then the Elderberry accent is what the Mfg. Was shooting for.
Now on the other hand you wanted to do your own thing than adding the currents is a good thing to the primary.

 

[Cellar Vader]

Jumping on board regarding the Elderberry pack in the Valroza: I just got the same kit from LP last month, and it did not contain that pack. Hmmmm. Has WE changed something midstream for this kit? So...I bought a pack of the Zante currants, (2 cups) and I believe that I read somewhere here that 1 cup will suffice? Can someone chime in with a confirmation, or alternate advice?
My 2 LHBS's don't carry the BM4x4, which is another recommendation for Italian kits, so wondering if the supplied EC-1118 will work fine?

 

[cmason1957]

EC-1118 will ferment your shoe, so yes, it will ferment. If you go back to the very beginning of this thread, you want to use a yeast that is concentrate friendly and the original writer of this does not recommend changing yeasts any longer. I tend to agree with that sentiment for kit wines.

 

[sour_grapes]

I am of the opinion that there no such thing as "concentrate friendly." What, exactly, is purported to change upon concentration? I have never seen any evidence that one strain of Saccharomyces cerevisiae is better than any other strain with respect to, well, whatever is purported to have changed.

Now, that is not to say different strains don't have different strengths and weaknesses. But what does concentration have to do with it?

 

[cmason1957]

Perhaps it isn't so much the concentration that causes the change as it is the entire process of making wine kits. The concentration, then the heat stabilizing, then finally the addition of acid, some of it not the normal acid (malic) used in from grape winemaking.

Not for sure where the "kit taste" comes from, I'm not even sure if I can taste it. But I tend to stick with the supplied yeast in a kit. That's just me and I may well be in the minority, but I think kits aren't the same as grapes and for best results stick with what the manufacturers believe produces the best results. I won't get into a big fight about should you / shouldn't you. As in all things winemaking listen to the advice of others and decide what works best for you.

 

[Swedeman]

then finally the addition of acid, some of it not the normal acid (malic) used in from grape winemaking.

What acids are the adding?

 

[Cellar Vader]

As in all things winemaking listen to the advice of others and decide what works best for you.

Well said.

 

[cmason1957]

What acids are the adding?

Based on what has been said by Tim Vandergrift, the godfather of the modern wine kit, they are balanced with some combination of citric and tartaric, but mostly with malic acid. I don't know of any winemakers who make wine from fresh grapes that ever add malic acid to the must. Why do wine kit manufacturers, that is something that I don't know and from what I understand, they won't say.

 

[Swedeman]

with some combination of citric and tartaric, but mostly with malic acid

Thanks, then the question is if that really would have an impact on any yeast strain used for kits.

As in all things winemaking listen to the advice of others and decide what works best for you.

Maybe it should be: "As in all things winemaking listen to the advice of others and decide what you believe works best for you.