Corks rising

[Traverse]

My friend went into the cellar and found that about 5 of our corks are rising. What is the cause of this, and what may be a solution?

The wine is a Cab Sauv kit wine, it was thoroughly degassed, no sugar was added, it was stabilized as per instructions, and he left enough space between the wine and the cork. Plus it has been aging for 4 months. The only thing that was different from the last bottling we did was that he laid the bottles on their side immediately after bottling, and it was about 3 or 4 hours before he was informed that they needed to be right side up for a couple days.

I know that they are supposed to stand right side up to let the cork seal against the bottle; so if this wasn't done would the wine get in between the cork and the glass, act as a lubricant and then the remaining "negligible" amount of gas push it out?

Traverse

 

[Wade E]

What was the final sg before bottling? Besides possibly not being all the way fermented the only other thing I can think of that makes sense is malolactic fermentation started in the bottle.

 

[Traverse]

Ick, I hope that's not the case. If it is malolactic, is it ruined? Or can I stop it? I don't know what the final sg was exactly, the logs are over at his place; but I do know it was around 0.993. Is it possible that it would still be fermenting after 4 months?

 

[Runningwolf]

What Wade said is a possibility. What size corks did you use (#9 or #8). How did you prepare the corks? Did you soak or wet them? Is there about 1/2" of space in bottle below cork? I'm just pulling straws here trying to help you out. The other thing that will do it is if you wine and bottles were not at room temperature before bottling, as they warm up this would be the main cause.

 

[Wade E]

Good point Dan! If you bottled this wine at a much cooler temp and now its made it to room temp then expansion is most likely the problem.
As far as standard fermenting goes not if the eg was anywhere close to .993 as you said. Yes it could still be fermenting if the St was higher and the, temps were cool.

 

[JohnT]

I agree with Wade and RW. Since you bottled cool, any further activity in the wine would naturally be slowed only to increase as the wine warms up.

Unless extreme, the amount space you leave in the bottle would normally not be a factor, even with massive changes in temp.

Given your sg, I think we can rule out fermentation kicking back off, but to be sure, take a look at the wine. Is it clear?. Open a bottle. Does it taste yeasty or is it fizzy? Did you perhaps backsweeten after your sg reading?

Wade: question to you. I would think that MLF kicking off without first adding an appropriate culture is a rare event. Would you agrree?

 

[Traverse]

The corks used were #8, I just could not get #9 through the hand corker. I wasn't there for the bottling, but my friend was there when we bottled the first, and he's brewed many batches of beer so he's not ignorant to the process. I did tell him to soak the corks in sanitizer for a bit, and he said he did that; He left a good space between the cork and wine and no sugar was added to back-sweeten. Also, he bottled in the upstairs kitchen because it's tile and then moved the bottles to the cellar; so they were actually bottled in warmer temps, and moved to cooler temps.

I can't get over there until Monday because of finals, but I can start an investigation then and report back on the look, smell, taste etc... I just hope those corks don't pop. I told him to push them back in for now until I can get over there, but I'm sure they will just keep pushing up. I just don't want them to be exposed to air for very long.

 

[robie]

It could be the smaller corks, but normally, that is not a big issue. I guess it could be MLF, but most kits are stabilized with Lysozyme to prevent MLF.

Considering that all else was done correctly, I can't think of anything else besides cork size that might have done this.

Laying them down too quickly, considering the size of the corks, might have allowed some liquid to seep between the cork and glass affecting the seal, but that is not likely the problem.

Check that there is no new sediment in the bottles. This could point to further fermentation.

Sorry I can't help much.

 

[jswordy]

Another idea: We are in the spring now and temps and barometric pressures are rising and falling. That can move corks.

Many of my #9s that are flush when I winter bottle in the house and let the wine stand up to equalize then move inward when I lay the wine in my cool cellar over winter. The wine contracts in the cool, creating a vacuum.

If you have had strong weather fronts or a swift rise in springtime temps, perhaps the pressure drops or expanding fluid created pressure that moved your corks outward.

If this is it, you'd have absolutely nothing to worry about.

The real reason wine is left upright after bottling is to allow the excess pressure built up inside when the cork is rammed down and compresses the gas in the headspace to dissipate along the sides of the cork while it is still "loosely" in the bottle. Once the wine side of the cork swells, the seal becomes very tight. If you did not allow this dissipation, the compressed gas from your corking would make it even easier for my theory to prove correct. It's atmospheric.

BTW, I would not soak corks. Rather, get a spray bottle and put a k meta solution in it and spritz them just before use if you are worried about contaminants. By soaking them, you start the expansion process that keeps air pressures from equalizing while the bottles are left upright.

 

[BernardSmith]

I don't want to hijack this thread but is there really a good reason to soak corks? The corks are presumably packed under relatively sanitary conditions. Wouldn't soaking corks result in a less tight fit as the liquid could act to lubricate the cork? So there is little benefit gained from soaking but a potential problem of corks more likely to slip and move after they have been inserted..

 

[FABulousWines]

I don't want to hijack this thread but is there really a good reason to soak corks? The corks are presumably packed under relatively sanitary conditions. Wouldn't soaking corks result in a less tight fit as the liquid could act to lubricate the cork? So there is little benefit gained from soaking but a potential problem of corks more likely to slip and move after they have been inserted..

I think the reasoning is twofold: 1) soak in K meta to sanitized, 2) the cork will swell and guarantee a tighter fit, even after drying out.

 

[JohnT]

I used to only soak corks, but boil them as well.

My thinking is sanitation and also ease of closure. By boiling them, I found that the corks just slid in and still kept a great seal.

I also found that there is part of the cork that does bleed into the wine. After boiling them, I noticed that the liquid too on a tan color and also a cork smell. My thinking at the time was I did not want any of this in my wine.

I am glad to say that I am no longer a cork soaker! (ha-ha).

Once I delved into it, I found that most professional wineries cork their bottles with dry corks. the quality comming out of portugal in the last 5 years is a drastic improvement. The whole TCA scare really put them on their game!

In 5 years of bottling, I have never had a cork fail on me, nor have I experienced any problems in the wine itself related to corks.

To think of all of the time I wasted boiling and soaking.

johnT.

 

[FABulousWines]

Relavent to the discussion, I found this recent thread on cork soaking:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f3/do-you-sanitize-corks-37117/

It seems many here are not in favor of cork soaking. Also some interesting techniques for sanitizing without soaking.

 

[Traverse]

Robie: I did actually notice quite a bit of sediment on the bottom of the carboy a couple days before it was bottled. I thought it was weird, but didn't think too much about it; I'll definitely check the bottles.

Jswordy: We did actually have a strong snow storm come in yesterday; snowed all day. You think that the low pressure could have popped those corks? Now that you say that, seems more than coincidence that this was noticed yesterday, although he did bottle 4 days ago.

My LHBS told me to soak the corks when I said I couldn't get the #9's through the corker. He said I should soak them no matter what to help them get inside the bottle. But when I "soaked" them, water never soaked in; it was like the outer coating was wax, so I was actually wondering about the function of soaking other than sanitation.

 

[Runningwolf]

Ok Traverse, it's time to pull up a chair for a moment and listened to the best advise you'll ever get in this hobby and you'll never regret it. Sitting down yet? Spend a few dollars and get a cheap floor corker. It's the red Portuguese floor corker for about $60. I put well over 8000 bottles through mine with no issues and not a bit of rust. I have never soaked or sprayed my corks and I don't sanitize them professionally either. We use the right out of the bag. Now if you get to the point where others are at on this forum and start buying 1000 at a time we can talk about sanitary storage conditions. I just bought a new Italian corker a little while ago that costs about twice as much that is nice but not worth the money for a beginner. As for your LHBS, he has his head up his a$$, and others will verify I normally would never say that delibertly about anyone.

 

[Traverse]

Hahaha he does! I normally don't like going in there because they don't seem to care if I'm there or not; plus, they seem better suited to run a dispensary.

I might just have to do that. $60 isn't bad; the last one I saw at the store was over 100 I think. I'll look online for what you described. My buddy just got a floor capper and he said it made all the difference in the world. Thanks for the advice Wolf.

Traverse

 

[Runningwolf]

Any time my friend thats why were here and after one batch you'll be giving the same advice.

 

[jswordy]

Hahaha he does! I normally don't like going in there because they don't seem to care if I'm there or not; plus, they seem better suited to run a dispensary.

I might just have to do that. $60 isn't bad; the last one I saw at the store was over 100 I think. I'll look online for what you described. My buddy just got a floor capper and he said it made all the difference in the world. Thanks for the advice Wolf.

Traverse

I would not trust any advice from that cork soaker anymore, Traverse.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lWuba4HKg4[/ame] (Sorry to the old timers, HAD TO DO IT!)

Runningwolf is steering you in the correct direction but he really meant to say the ITALIAN floor corker, which has a brass iris and is superior. I say this because I myself own one! So it must be better!

Naw, either one will work. The Italian will last you, your children and their children. The Portuguese one will last just you and your children.

I was thinking of this thread last night when I pulled a bottle out of the cellar and the cork was recessed by 1/8 inch. I put them all in flush.

I am at the multiple 100-cork bags stage. Now, this is controversial here, but they do sanitize and fill the bags with an antimicrobial gas so that some suppliers (Midwest) actually guarantee the corks will not taint if used directly from a previously unopened bag. I just spritz them with k meta and use. I've never had trouble.

 

[dessertmaker]

Ok Traverse, it's time to pull up a chair for a moment and listened to the best advise you'll ever get in this hobby and you'll never regret it. Sitting down yet? Spend a few dollars and get a cheap floor corker. It's the red Portuguese floor corker for about $60. I put well over 8000 bottles through mine with no issues and not a bit of rust. I have never soaked or sprayed my corks and I don't sanitize them professionally either. We use the right out of the bag. Now if you get to the point where others are at on this forum and start buying 1000 at a time we can talk about sanitary storage conditions. I just bought a new Italian corker a little while ago that costs about twice as much that is nice but not worth the money for a beginner. As for your LHBS, he has his head up his a$$, and others will verify I normally would never say that delibertly about anyone.

BAH! You kin fit any size cork in a wine bottle if ya stick to the good ole trustee redneck wine corker.

Duct tape and a hammer.

(Pronounced Duhck Taype and a Haymerr.)

Heres a picture of the proper method.







This corker will last to yer kids and yer kids kids and yer half step sisters kids too, providing you don't use the duct tape to fix your radiator hose, or patch up holes in your still

 

[dessertmaker]

Well *I* thought it was funny...... And apparently killed the thread.

So I shall now take my misguided sense of humor, duct tape hammer AND skillet somewhere where they will be more appreciated!