WineXpert Eclipse Lodi Cab - calling all tweakers!

[ceeaton]

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I figure if I go with the BM-45 and it starts sputtering, I can always drop the EC-1118 (as was done in the Forza) and bring it home that way.

Why not just go with the BM 4x4 which is BM45 plus another harmonious yeast that helps it to finish dry?

http://morewinemaking.com/products/bm-4x4-dry-wine-yeast.html

Just a thought. I've used BM 4x4 in two wines and like the results so far. Also liked CLOS (used on three reds).

 

[Johnd]

Why not just go with the BM 4x4 which is BM45 plus another harmonious yeast that helps it to finish dry?

http://morewinemaking.com/products/bm-4x4-dry-wine-yeast.html

Just a thought. I've used BM 4x4 in two wines and like the results so far. Also liked CLOS (used on three reds).

I've used it on several as well, but had trouble finding it at my LHBS for a while. The owner ordered some and I scored 12 packs, resting in my fridge. I've found it to perform well, but I feed all yeast...... I think it's my new go to for big reds. Haven't used it on a white yet.

 

[ceeaton]

I've used it on several as well, but had trouble finding it at my LHBS for a while. The owner ordered some and I scored 12 packs, resting in my fridge. I've found it to perform well, but I feed all yeast...... I think it's my new go to for big reds. Haven't used it on a white yet.

I'm trying it out on an Island Mist Sangria, a little darker than a blush but it had extra white grape extract added, and a lot of peach essence to the juice. I've seen that it works well on both reds and whites, at least it is rated higher than the EC-1118 the kit came with.

The fermenting vapor trail leads to my basement, where I'm at now, and it smells really wonderful down here.

I've been getting it from MoreWine. Can't remember if my LHBS has it, don't think they do. @jgmann67 can check if he goes over there tomorrow afternoon?

 

[jgmann67]

I'm trying it out on an Island Mist Sangria, a little darker than a blush but it had extra white grape extract added, and a lot of peach essence to the juice. I've seen that it works well on both reds and whites, at least it is rated higher than the EC-1118 the kit came with.

The fermenting vapor trail leads to my basement, where I'm at now, and it smells really wonderful down here.

I've been getting it from MoreWine. Can't remember if my LHBS has it, don't think they do. @jgmann67 can check if he goes over there tomorrow afternoon?

Stopping on the way home.

 

[Kiwisholland]

Which tannin product do you guys use? What "raisins" do you use? Not grocery raisins, right?

 

[Kiwisholland]

Thanks for the bag idea, John. Will be doing this going forward. What size bag do you use?

 

[Johnd]

Thanks for the bag idea, John. Will be doing this going forward. What size bag do you use?

I got a fine mesh bag from my LHBS, it's the same diameter as my fermenting bucket, but a foot taller so it folds over on the outside. Grabbed a 7.9 gal. bucket at the LHBS and tried out bags til I found one the right size. I think it's intended for beer production, but it works great for my purposes.

 

[Kiwisholland]

Thanks, saw 24x24 and 29x29. I'll try them at the LHBS

 

[jgmann67]

Started the Cab last night.

"Free range" grape pack and oak chips stirred in. The OG went up to a respectable 1.100 (potential ABV north of 14%??) from 1.076-ish when it was just the juice.

I followed the directions on the BM-4x4 (yes, the have it at my LHBS) and rehydrated in warm water for 15 minutes, stirred for 1 minute, then poured and stirred into the must.

Then I put the brew belt on the primary, and went upstairs to finish off the remains of a bottle of Maker's Mark. This morning, the temp in primary is a couple degrees warmer, at 70*. So I stirred and buttoned it back up.

Now, we wait.

 

[ceeaton]

Now, we wait.

My batch with BM 4x4 started showing signs of life by lunch time the next day at 66*F, so I think it is a pretty rapid starter, and definitely a strong fermenter. Can hear the gurgling from the airlock down here in the basement and that's been going all week.

I need to get one of those brewbelts.

 

[jgmann67]

My batch with BM 4x4 started showing signs of life by lunch time the next day at 66*F, so I think it is a pretty rapid starter, and definitely a strong fermenter. Can hear the gurgling from the airlock down here in the basement and that's been going all week.



I need to get one of those brewbelts.

They have them at Scotzin Bros. Decent price.

The materials on the BM4x4 say it's good between the 60's and the 80's. So, I'm shooting for the middle and starting the ferment in the low 70's.

The bucket smells fantastic, btw. I'll check in on it tonight and see if there are any signs of life.

With the BM 4x4, do I need to feed it with a nutrient?

 

[ceeaton]

With the BM 4x4, do I need to feed it with a nutrient?

Some say yes, some say no.

Lately for me I use GoFerm Protect to re-hydrate the yeast and nothing after that if it is a kit. I'm figuring that they have the correct balance of nutrients already in there. Have been doing that lately since I never reordered any Fermaid O. Haven't had any rotten egg issues yet. If I do I'll add Fermaid O since it can be used by the yeast later in the process where a DAP based one isn't used by the yeast as much and can remain for other critters to feed on.

Juice buckets and grapes, yes, I use Go Ferm to re-hydrate and two additions of Fermaid O, one just after yeast lag phase and the other 1/2 before 1/2 sugar depletion (I aim for after 1/3 depletion but sometimes miss my target).

Hope that helps.

 

[Johnd]

With the BM 4x4, do I need to feed it with a nutrient?

Did some research when started using BM 4x4. Rated as moderate need for nutrient, moderate risk for H2S when stressed.

Here's some theory, kit producers presumably add nutrient based upon the supplied yeast, if your kit came with EC1118, it doesn't need nutrients like the BM, therefore presume nutrients to be low for BM. I add nutrients twice, after first and second thirds of sugar depletion, but the total is only half the recommended dose.

So if the recommended dose is 1tsp/ gallon, 6 tsp would be the recommended dose for a 6 gallon kit, so I'll add 3 tsp total, 1-1/2tsp twice during fermentation.

Lots of presumptions there, and no real scientific data to back it up, but haven't had one get stuck or produce H2S yet, knock on wood...............

 

[sour_grapes]

I have used BM45 on a number of kits without adding additional nutrients. (Also did this with other yeasts such as D254, RP15, D47, and SYR.) Have not had any H2S problems. My theory is that kits have sufficient YAN.

If I ever get H2S, of course, I will toss that theory out the window and go back to adding nutrients!

 

[Johnd]

I have used BM45 on a number of kits without adding additional nutrients. (Also did this with other yeasts such as D254, RP15, D47, and SYR.) Have not had any H2S problems. My theory is that kits have sufficient YAN.

If I ever get H2S, of course, I will toss that theory out the window and go back to adding nutrients!

Hmmmmm, sounds like I'm overthinking and making things way more complicated than they need to be....... Just hope my wife doesn't find out that I said that!!

 

[Rocky]

I prefer the bag to loose for the ease of racking at the end of primary. I have no issue with the bag sinking because I sanitize my hands and wring the crap out of the bag a couple times a day and it sinks readily. I also think the wringing out makes for better extraction of flavor and TDS's. I have the Eclipse Lodi Cab in bulk right now and it is very promising. I did, however, add an additional (homemade) grape pack of Zinfandel grapes. I also added additional oak because I like a very oaky Cab.

I don't think there is a right or wrong or even a good or bad. It is all what taste good to the person enjoying the wine.

 

[ceeaton]

Hmmmmm, sounds like I'm overthinking and making things way more complicated than they need to be....... Just hope my wife doesn't find out that I said that!!

I'll keep it a secret if you keep the wine volcano I just had with a Pinot Grigio all over the kitchen floor. Floor needs done anyway, just did a portion on my hands and knees so I didn't distribute white grape stickiness around the rest of the kitchen.

She'll be away hopefully till dinner with my youngest daughter. 10 yr old son just went to my brothers to play in the snow with his cousins. Two oldest kids are in Altoona. I got the house to myself. Time to crank the tunes in the basement loud enough so I can feel them upstairs.

 

[Johnd]

I'll keep it a secret if you keep the wine volcano I just had with a Pinot Grigio all over the kitchen floor. Floor needs done anyway, just did a portion on my hands and knees so I didn't distribute white grape stickiness around the rest of the kitchen.

Your secret is safe with me.........

 

[sour_grapes]

Hmmmmm, sounds like I'm overthinking and making things way more complicated than they need to be....... Just hope my wife doesn't find out that I said that!!

Well, who knows? YMMV, and maybe your theory will prove out in the end!

I started out using the yeast that came in the kit (usually EC-1118, occasionally RC212). Eventually, I started branching out to fussier yeasts and adding plenty of nutrients. I then experimented with not adding nutrients. At various times on this forum, I have been scolded FOR using nutrients with kits, and also scolded for NOT using nutrients. I think you gotta just go with your gut here (unless and until, of course, !)

 

[jgmann67]

I was a little hesitant at first going off script with a different yeast than what was provided.

But I liked what I read on the BM 4x4. From a retailer website:

Lalvin BM 4x4 is a blend of BM45 wine making yeast and a complimentary strain chosen by Lallemand to provide all the advantages of BM45 with even greater reliability under difficult conditions. Gives a more dependable fermentation, increased mouthfeel, is good with Bordeaux & Sangiovese, and enhances tobacco, cedar, leather and jam characteristics. Sold in a 500 gram package for best value.

Greater reliability than the BM45 even under difficult conditions. Plus, improved color, nose, mouthfeel... Had to do it. The conditions in my basement aren't too bad.

I have some nutrient laying around. But was really thinking if it sputters, I'd drop the EC-1118 and finish up.