WM81 Fall 2023 Experiments

[winemaker81]

Last night I bottled the last of the Vidal-Orange, which I'm referring to as "part 2". I netted 18 bottles from that, which received K-meta, glycerin, sorbate, and sugar.

Per usual I don't rack containers all the way to the bottle, and the bit of sediment in an extra 4 liter jug was stirred up. After bottling the main part, I poured all remaining wine through coffee filters and bottled "as is", meaning no sulfite, glycerin, sorbate, or sugar. These two bottles are marked separately and will be used first, probably for cooking. Although pouring a tsp of Agave nectar into the glass and filling with wine works quite well!

Last night I went through my "Wine In Detail" blogs, cleaning up a lot of details. The 2023 Metheglin and Chambourcin will be finalized when I bottle those wines in the next few months. However, once they are done I'm not seeing a reason to write more. The In Detail blogs are a fair amount of work, and I try to make them all different in focus, and at this time I can't think of anything that would differentiate a new wine enough to make it worth writing about.

IMO the Vidal in Detail blog has 2 useful points:

1. Contrasting a white wine made from juice and made from fruit (fermented on the skins).

2. Differences between various containers of the same batch. In this case different containers of the Vidal-Orange needing different amounts of sugar to balance the acid.

https://wine.bkfazekas.com/2023-vidal-in-detail/

 

[winemaker81]

I need to bottle last fall's Chambourcin. I'm still debating how to handle the slightly acidic taste. One choice it potassium bicarbonate, and another is slight backsweetening.

I added 1/4 cup sugar per 4 liters Vidal, leaving the wine off-dry and addressing the acid.

Since I have 9 gallons of Chambourcin, I may try both approaches.

 

[mainshipfred]

Glycerol has a tendency to mask a high acid wine without the need to use sorbates.

 

[winemaker81]

Glycerol has a tendency to mask a high acid wine without the need to use sorbates.

Good tip.

I tried that with my first bottling of Vidal in March -- it helped, but there was too much acid for it to fully address the acid. That batch is being sweetened by the glass.

Given that I have not made a French-American hybrid since ~1991, I'm having to relearn things. Plus we are doing things today we were not doing 30+ years ago. Glycerin was available, but it was expensive.

 

[Guasto-IS]

Be extremely careful and carefully dose (use very minimal) potassium bicarbonate as it can leave a metallic taste in the wine afterwards.

 

[winemaker81]

Be extremely careful and carefully dose (use very minimal) potassium bicarbonate as it can leave a metallic taste in the wine afterwards.

I've been told that -- and I'm happy you're repeating the warning. My dad said it's better to be warned one time too many rather than one time too few.

My thought is to initially add about 1/4 of what I think it needs, as it's easier to add more than take some out.

 

[Guasto-IS]

I've been told that -- and I'm happy you're repeating the warning. My dad said it's better to be warned one time too many rather than one time too few.

My thought is to initially add about 1/4 of what I think it needs, as it's easier to add more than take some out.

When I experimented with K-bicarb to bring down pH of a red, I set-up 4x 375mL bottles, each with differing amounts of bicarb. After stirring (off-gas) and sealing bottles with saran wrap, I let the wine bottles sit for 1-2 days to adjust. Taste each the wine every day for a few days and evaluate which is best tasting for acidity, metallic tasting and for presence saltiness. You should be able to find the optimal dosage.

 

[winemaker81]

When I experimented with K-bicarb to bring down pH of a red, I set-up 4x 375mL bottles, each with differing amounts of bicarb. After stirring (off-gas) and sealing bottles with saran wrap, I let the wine bottles sit for 1-2 days to adjust. Taste each the wine every day for a few days and evaluate which is best tasting for acidity, metallic tasting and for presence saltiness. You should be able to find the optimal dosage.

Good idea!

 

[Guasto-IS]

Good idea!

Let us know how it turns out

 

[tullamore]

question
i'm thinking adding adding oak chips during fermentation to one of my batches this year - never dd
i have neutral barrels that i had for many years
i usually add the chips after 1.5-2 years when i rack into carboys
how much to add during the fermentation?
this experiment will be 12 lugs - i was thinking about 3 cups???
thoughts???

 

[winemaker81]

question
i'm thinking adding adding oak chips during fermentation to one of my batches this year - never dd
i have neutral barrels that i had for many years
i usually add the chips after 1.5-2 years when i rack into carboys
how much to add during the fermentation?
this experiment will be 12 lugs - i was thinking about 3 cups???
thoughts???

The instructions on the toasted shredded oak I use says 2 to 3 cups per 6 gallons, which I translated into 3/4 to 1 cup per 36 lb lug.

 

[tullamore]

interesting - i always used 1/4 cup per carboy (18.9 litres) - i always tend to go less -add more if needed
i will try ur numbers to see
don't want the Oak Monster to creep in
i love oak - but ...... when that monster creeps in - there's no turning back

 

[winemaker81]

interesting - i always used 1/4 cup per carboy (18.9 litres) - i always tend to go less -add more if needed
i will try ur numbers to see
don't want the Oak Monster to creep in
i love oak - but ...... when that monster creeps in - there's no turning back

IME fermentation oak contributes no oak character. Keep in mind the duration is typically 4 to 8 days. I wrote the following post a couple of years ago, after conducting an experiment and reading various sources.

https://wine.bkfazekas.com/fermentation-vs-aging-oak/

 

[tullamore]

IME fermentation oak contributes no oak character. Keep in mind the duration is typically 4 to 8 days. I wrote the following post a couple of years ago, after conducting an experiment and reading various sources.

https://wine.bkfazekas.com/fermentation-vs-aging-oak/

good read
thks for ur input

 

[winemaker81]

Update on the Vidal -- the Juice produced 3 gallons, so my son, niece, and I each got 5 bottles. It came out good, although it's acidic. We tried adding a lot of glycerin, but that didn't really fix it, so as mentioned above, I backsweeten in the glass with a small squirt of Agave nectar.

I'm very pleased with it.

The Orange? The three of us like it better, but we're all primarily red drinkers, so the heavier body is appreciated. I need to open a bottle of each together and do a direct comparison.

As a result of this experiment, in the near future we'll be purchasing from @VinesnBines enough Vidal to make 2 carboys and Chardonnel to make 1. All will be fermented on the skins. Plus I'm considering trying MLF on them.