Finer Wine Kit Finer Wine Kits

[heatherd]

From what I've read and heard in the Finer Wines videos, there are seemingly at least three things in the yeast starter pack: a Go-Ferm type yeast rehydration nutrient, some kind of acid blend (they spoke of getting the yeast acclimated to the ph of the wine), and some little bit of sugar to actually get the yeasts reproducing and ready to hit the wine/must running, there could also be some Fermaid O type yeast nutrient. I think that you'd be fine with or without the yeast starter, but the founder of Finer Wines emphasized how important a strong start to the fermentation is to avoiding bad results. In many kits you wait 1-2 day to see an active ferment (when you pour the yeast on with no yeast starter, with or without rehydrating for a few minutes first), if you do the yeast starter you probably cut 12-24 hours off of that. It is not a big deal if your sanitation is spot on, but if there is any competing yeast or microbes in the wine/must then the quicker ferment by your chosen yeast is a big boost.

Yes, that's my understanding as well about the contents of the packet. One of the many reasons these kits are slick.

 

[heatherd]

Is the Riesling designed to be dry? I know you can ferment to dry but just wondering if that is how the kit is setup.

I haven't done their white yet, but would expect that it will ferment to dry. The red kits have k-meta and k-sorbate so that would allow you to back sweeten if desired. I will make them dry when I do the whites in the future.

 

[heatherd]

@Label Peelers I have two of your Finer Wine kits in progress and they look and smell lovely! I saw the addition of whites and some more reds, which is exciting. I would really like to make a rose, are there any plans for a Finer Wines rose kit?

 

[heatherd]

I picked off a Petite Syrah too. Couldn’t help myself.

I have the Cab and Super Tuscan going now. Debating between a Bordeaux blend and Petit Syrah. May do a white first though. Tough decisions!

 

[sour_grapes]

Finkle & Einhorn
PotAto & PotAHto

Except that your spellings were correct! Was @Ldypink actually incorrectly "correcting" you? I thought she was just saying what she ordered (and inadvertantly misspelling them both).

 

[JnLnNOVA]

Except that your spellings were correct! Was @Ldypink actually incorrectly "correcting" you? I thought she was just saying what she ordered (and inadvertantly misspelling them both).

If so we ordered the same kits! LoL I have Chard and Cab going right now. I made the mistake of not checking the weather and it has been in the 90’s here which is around 80 in my garage where I ferment (smells so good!). Cab is fine but the D47 is not optimal I am reading at the higher end of the fermentation range? It’s in the low 80s so I put a few cold packs in ziplocks to at least get it into the mid 70s. Anyone have experience with D47 at higher temps? Smells fine so I’m not “worried” but I would have preferred a high 60’s low 70’s max.

 

[Bmd2k1]

If so we ordered the same kits! LoL I have Chard and Cab going right now. I made the mistake of not checking the weather and it has been in the 90’s here which is around 80 in my garage where I ferment (smells so good!). Cab is fine but the D47 is not optimal I am reading at the higher end of the fermentation range? It’s in the low 80s so I put a few cold packs in ziplocks to at least get it into the mid 70s. Anyone have experience with D47 at higher temps? Smells fine so I’m not “worried” but I would have preferred a high 60’s low 70’s max.

Sorry - NO experience in the 80F's --- though it's supposedly got an upper range to 86F. It's my fav Hard Cider yeast and just finished fermenting a Zin Rose' to ABV 15% with it -- smells & tastes great so far. My lower level is typically in the 60F's year-round.

Good luck & Cheers!

 

[joeswine]

Does anyone know where this juice originates from?
Just queries.

 

[Bmd2k1]

Does anyone know where this juice originates from?
Just queries.

I see Lodi California specified for a couple of the Reds on the Label Peelers site ✌

 

[cmason1957]

Does anyone know where this juice originates from?
Just queries.

I almost think I read somewhere that it mostly comes from the Lodi, Ca area.

 

[heatherd]

My first two kits are a Super Tuscan and a Cabernet Sauvignon with double skins. I left the skins in for 15 days and fermented to dry in primary. I didn't end up adding the nutrient since my starter was vigorous. I didn't airlock but laid the lid on loosely. Tasted them today and they're already great at days old!! No kit taste at all, even though I added the stabilizing packet that is a combination of kmeta and ksorbate. Not clear yet but really delish.

Pulled the trigger on Sauvignon Blanc and Bordeaux Blend with double skins shipped to me for $203.

 

[heatherd]

I believe they had yeast combined with a yeast nutrient. I don't recall off hand any mention of kind of yeast. I'll check my notes tomorrow.

RC212 for the reds. Not sure yet for the whites.

 

[heatherd]

I almost think I read somewhere that it mostly comes from the Lodi, Ca area.

That's what the LP website says: Lodi.

 

[heatherd]

Question for the masses: I've done extended maceration on a couple of kits and have been happy with the results. I'm tempted to try it on this one, but this is closer to fresh grapes, so I'm questioning myself. Any thoughts? Maybe I should just make it per the instructions (mostly) and experiment w/ the next one.

I did a short one of 15 days on the skins and my two batches taste great and have nice deep color. I would think you could do a longer one if you want.

 

[heatherd]

My experience so far (Cab and Merlot):

Fedex took 8 days to Seattle but contents were still below 60 degrees, no issues. The juice bag is lighter than other kits but with the styrofoam cooler the packaging is much bigger. Does that really save shipping costs?

Instructions. Unlike other kits, you get a 20 page spiral bound book. A little wordy. Heavy emphasis on sanitation, "Don't make wine in your kitchen or bathroom". Ha! If it weren't for those rooms I wouldn't be an aspiring home winemaker! Includes a nice bio on the kit creator and his vision for a better process.

Instructions call for rehydrating the yeast for a day, which I've never done before. Worked well. RC-212 took off almost instantly, hit 1.000 in 5 days.

Skins are very dry, soak up a lot of wine. After squeezing by hand they still contain a lot of juice. I started with 6 gallons in the primaries, ended up with 5-1/2 in the carboys.

So far, so good. Let us know how your journey goes.

Same, I got 5-1/2 gallons from mine but I view that as a good thing as its more like free-run, and I don't want to top up with my other kit wine and spoil them. I also didn't want to rack over too much sediment. Folks with a press may want to run them through, though.

 

[heatherd]

Very cool to hear from someone who got in on the first shipment. The booklet is available in PDF form here for anyone who wants to read it before their kit arrives (or hasn't bought a kit yet): https://indd.adobe.com/view/929e37e4-36a7-4ac5-af96-cd2cfd61bcbe

The most interesting thing in the book is that he says that all kits, regardless of price or varietal, come from pasteurized juice, concentrate, even skins in order to be shelf stable and that leads them to taste "cooked and dead" with an "unmistakable flavor in all pasteurized juice kits" which he and fellow wine contest judges could always pick out. (See page 17, bottom of the only full paragraph). Hence his kits is unpasteurized and ships cold and needs to be kept cold, if this works he has solved "kit taste".

The other thing which stood out to me was that the booklet does not talk at all of bulk aging (nor extended maceration), like most kits it has you bottling within 8 weeks, using the usual fining agents and stabilizers, I think even sorbate is packed together with sulfite but I could be wrong there. But in terms of drinking the wines he is clear that the more skins you use the longer to leave the bottles alone. He suggests that all bottles will improve with age, but to wait at least 6-12 weeks if you used no skin packs, 4-6 months if you used a single skin pack, and 6-12 months if you used a double skin pack. (see #9 on page 15).

I still have not gotten any notice about the shipping of my Super Tuscan kit, but in no rush. Perhaps certain varietals are ready and shipping sooner than others?

I plan to do a shorter extended maceration (EM) on the double skin packs, for about 4 weeks. Not yet sure if I will bulk age (probably), or use all of the finings and stabilizers (maybe not, may just use sulfite), and what I'll do with the yeast and yeast starter (I like the idea of yeast starters but I'm also trying to create something I can closely and fairly compare to the RJS Super Tuscan which is in EM right now, and used BM4X4 yeast with Go Ferm simply rehydrated with no starter, then Ferm K at 65% of O.G.).

Very good information about how the double skin packs of dry skins soak up a decent amount of wine, I may just move to a 5 gallon carboy and keep the excess wine for topping off.

Correct that kmeta and ksorbate are combined in the finishing packet. I tasted mine after that addition and there is still zero kit taste.

The yeast starter worked great, and I hadn't done that before. Also liked that the packet had everything you need (sugar + goferm + acid).

I am going to try to bulk-age and skip the superkleer kc to see if these will clear on their own. I may also add more oak but will wait and see how the second pack of oak cubes does its job.

 

[heatherd]

Received and started my Super Tuscan yesterday. Arrived chilled, but not cold. The instructions say that due to the sugar content the juice is fine at room temp for a few days. Seems reasonable. Maybe I didn't have the right technique but the bag cap is a pia. ended up just slicing the bag. I found it interesting that he included what must be kmeta for suppression of natural yeasts. Also that he suggest - 12-18 hours before the starter yeast is pitched. Maybe just to give the initial kmeta time to work. Skins smell great! A thorough and well thought out kit, without being "slick" or pretentious. Going to be hard to pack this one away for a year

I did my yeast starter for 30 hours just because it took me a couple days to let the kit warm up. I kept them cool in their original packaging with the addition of some ice packs we use for a cooler. The yeast starter did great and I was glad I did them in pint glasses!

 

[heatherd]

My Sangiovese fermentation went very fast too. Started at 1.095, day 3 it was at 1.040. I think the volume of the two skins packs pushed the must up to the limit of my fermenter. I had the lid sitting on top and the foam, bags and some oak chips were touching the lid. I thought about not adding the 2nd dose of nutrient because it was foaming so much but I did add it on day 3. Day 5 (yesterday) it was at 1.002 so I racked it into the bigmouth with the skins and put it under airlock. I pulled two 750ml bottles out of it so the BMB doesn't overflow and will add back in after I take the skins out. All in all it is smelling great and humming along nicely.

I didn't add it just because my fermentation was already strong and I was worried about a wine volcano. My primaries didn't overflow though.

 

[heatherd]

I am not going to use the Sorbate, partly because I'm using bentonite and partly because I don't plan to back-sweeten.

I degassed under vacuum after it was s-l-o-w-l-y degassing on its own and not clearing at all. If it needs to clear more after the bentonite and 6-8 months I may use the fining agents. I've become a big fan of cold stabilization too.

I don't know how to test for Fermaid K or what it will do if there is a bit too much in the must so I sent an email out to Scott Labs and one of their representatives answered pretty quickly. He related that there may be some labs that could test for Fermaid K but that the test would be fairly expensive and not too common. He related that Fermaid K is comprised of organic micronutrients, nitrogen and DAP. It's not great to have DAP in the must after the fermentation, but the yeast will consume the DAP first and whatever remains are dead yeast fractions so there's nothing to worry about. He suggested trying to add it sooner and to keep the kit in a cooler place so it doesn't get too hot.

The ksorbate and kmeta are combined in the same packet, so I added them and tasted my batch, still no kit taste and the wine's good 15 days in. Not clear but has great color and taste. I did the kit without bentonite and will see if it'll clear on its own.

 

[heatherd]

Pitched the yeast on my Cab on Sunday morning and it was at 1.000 this afternoon. I racked it into the Fermonster and added both skins bags back in. In a week or so (maybe less), I'll add the KMeta to give a little protection, then let it go a few more weeks.

My skins were still pretty solid and wine-logged after my short EM, so I'll be curious if longer EM makes them break down more.