Finer Wine Kit Finer Wine Kits

[Mekpdue]

I recently purchased 11 Finer Wine kits (I have historically only done WE what are now called Private Reserve kits). 3 whites (Sav Blanc, Reisling, Chardonnay) and 8 reds (1 of each Forte). The first 6 (3 whites, 3 reds) just racked to secondary today (day 15) and 5 more reds rolling. Not sure of the whites color concern - my are fresh in secondary so have a ton of clearing to do. Orange to rust right now...

I went covered with airlock from day 1 - only opening to punch down and add nutrients, etc. No issues obtaining sub 1.000 sg by day 15. Ferm reached 80 degrees for a few days in a 72 degree room with must temp staying above 68 for the duration.

The only challenge I've had is topping up. I started with 6.0 gallons in a 7.9 gallon bucket - had to add 1 to 2 bottles of commercial wine to reduce headspace. I have a tad left but should have enough activity for it to be OK for 14 days. Then i'll run the wine through a Super Jet with #2 pads - should get it bottle ready.

If these come out good (well 18 months from now....) I'll probably snag a few more wine coolers (when wife not looking)!

Fred, I finally took others advice and purchased a FWK Forte Merlot to top off my other wines. I was going with boxed and bottled wine, however, I finally realized that I enjoyed making the wines and why buy commercially when I can top off with something I made.

Just an idea. Sounds like you have plenty on your plate at the moment. Enjoy and success to you!

 

[ratflinger]

You should’ve gotten a little note in the box that explained the safety tab. Because of supply chain issues, we could not get a quick re-order of our usual bags and had to buy a substitute. we will be returning to our normal bags as soon as possible.
Sorry about the confusion.
Matteo

@Matteo_Lahm - Just so you know, I prefer the bags that just have the cap & no pull tab. JMHO

 

[ratflinger]

FWK kit instructions question - aka solicit for fact based opinions.

I am following Matteo's kit instructions to the T. I have 6 kits in secondary and 5 in primary all going very well. I see a lot of folks are dead set on keeping the wine in the carboy for many months. The kit instructions state to rack at least 2 times with 2 weeks in between (that would put primary at 2 weeks, secondary at 6 weeks with 2 rackings so 8 weeks total). I intend to filter with #2 pads using a Buon Vino Super Jet. I plan to do that (and per kit instructions) when the wine has been in secondary with chitosan/kieselsol and clearing for 2 weeks.

What is the down side of this plan as experienced by the Team?

If I move ahead with bottling that early I will be using Nomacorc 1.5" #9s and aging in a temperature controlled wine cooler (52F for whites and 56F for reds).

PS - I snagged an All In One Wine Pump for the bottling - I'm looking forward to how it will make it much easier!

No downside to what you are doing, however, I am running 1 month in the fermenter, 1 month in the kill jug, 1 month in the secondary carboy, then filter (1 micron) into Better Bottles with a min of 3 months there. At that point my wife and I decide if they going into kegs for table wine or bottles for later. At my current rate I can't leave wine in BB for more than 3 mo without stalling the process. I aim for 2 kits starting every month.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Thanks for the advice!

Question - the Forte instructions mention that the wine ages faster in the bottles vs the carboy. What is the advantage to leaving it in the bulk aging vessel?

I don’t plan on drinking any of the reds before the 18 or so month point…. My interest in rapid bottling is because most of my Carboys aren’t fully topped up so I want to minimize how long this is a concern. Already poured 9 commercial bottles ($90) into the first 6 and would need another 5 or 6 to fully top off. Plus another 12 for the remaining 5 kits.

 

[winemaker81]

Question - the Forte instructions mention that the wine ages faster in the bottles vs the carboy. What is the advantage to leaving it in the bulk aging vessel?

Wine goes through a lot of chemical changes during the first 6 to 12 months -- aging in bulk ensures the wine ages consistently. I was not a believer in this until a couple of years ago -- I bottled a red on kit schedule, and over the next 1.5 years I encountered a LOT of variation between bottles.

If using aging oak, time is required. While some use a larger quantity of oak adjuncts and age on oak a shorter time, I use a smaller amount and have found that 4 to 6 months is necessary to extract the constituents I want from the oak. I age 2 batches of red each year in oak, and the wine remains in the barrel until the next year's wine is ready for barrel.

If the wine has faults, e.g., excess tannin, flabby, etc., it can take time to adjust those faults. Once in the bottle, it's a fixed entity, unless you want to unbottle the batch.

Already poured 9 commercial bottles ($90) into the first 6 and would need another 5 or 6 to fully top off. Plus another 12 for the remaining 5 kits.

I plan to add 1.5 bottles to a 23 liter kit, as it's what's required. I look at it this way -- I was going to drink those commercial wines anyway. The difference is whether I drink them individually, or as part of a blend. My focus is on protecting my investment, which is not only money but effort, pride, etc.

It sounds like you're racking carefully to minimize unnecessary loss. To minimize loss, I pour the loose sludge from the fermenter and/or carboy into bottles and refrigerate for a week to settle, which may recover a fair amount of wine. I also tilt the carboy, and my first 2 rackings will be dirty, as the tiny bit of sediment I suck up will drop again. Matteo said it earlier -- every drop counts!

 

[FredTheNuke]

Yes I am super stingy when I rack in getting every single drop out that I can!

The bottle to bottle consistency definitely makes sense.

What I have learned when you do 8 red kits Is to buy an extra Merlot kit as a top up. It would’ve actually ended up cheaper with the extra kit versus the commercial. Although I am buying commercial wine that’s normally 12 to 15 a bottle in a Food Lion grocery store but is on sale for nine and some change. I could probably buy the seven dollar bottles and it would be just fine….

 

[Swedeman]

I bottled a red on kit schedule, and over the next 1.5 years I encountered a LOT of variation between bottles.

Have you thought of why? Variation in ulllage, temperature, light...?

 

[winemaker81]

@FredTheNuke, I agree with your point. If we buy a premium kit and include corks, etc, the total is $200 USD, which is roughly $8 per bottle. That's cheaper than most commercial wines that I'd be willing to top up mine (I never top with a wine of lesser quality), and if using a FWK Forte at current prices, it's significantly less. Plus we get to make another batch of wine!!!

Have you thought of why? Variation in ulllage, temperature, light...?

My wines are stored in a dark closet, the ullage is the same, etc. The answer I got from searching various sites is the wine ages separately in the bottle, and since changes are more drastic in the first months, bottling early gave the wines a chance to diverge. It still doesn't make 100% sense to me, but I can't find a better explanation.

 

[jgmann67]

Bottled the Petite Sirah at 6 months. I did this one double skins and added a spiral in bulk. It is dark, tannic, full bodied and tightly wound. After a half hour in the glass, it is a good bit looser with a big, black and blue berry palate.

in a word: woof.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

So has anyone determined yet if these FWK’s are able to go through MLF?

 

[jgmann67]

So has anyone determined yet if these FWK’s are able to go through MLF?

I asked that question. I got a yes, but you don’t need to.

If you try an mlf with one of these, remember to take that last packet with the potassium sorbate and throw it in the trash.

 

[cmason1957]

So has anyone determined yet if these FWK’s are able to go through MLF?

I asked Labelpeelers about that, back when these kits first came out. I reported what they told me on some thread here. My memory tells me that they said you probably could, but it might not be necessary. I haven't added mlb to either of the two I have done and I don't think it would help them to do it.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

I asked Labelpeelers about that, back when these kits first came out. I reported what they told me on some thread here. My memory tells me that they said you probably could, but it might not be necessary. I haven't added mlb to either of the two I have done and I don't think it would help them to do it.

@cmason1957 i am starting two FWK kits tomorrow (Cab and Super), I am going to try co-inoculation on the cab (48 hrs after pitching yeast)… so here is my MLF newbie question. It sounds like The primary fermentation will be done well before the MLF is done (and it sounds like that could take weeks, and you cannot add Sulfite until MLF is done. So my question is…after yeast fermentation is done do you just leave it in the sealed Speidel under airlock and on the gross lees until Mlf is done? I would think since you are not sulfiting as soon as you normally would, you would need to? Thanks guys for your MLF wisdom, I am excited to try it. If it works, on FWK kits my wife will be begging me to do it on her FWK Chardonnay as she likes super buttery chards and no kits have been buttery enough for her yet.

I imagine the best approach would be to rack of primary lees into a carboy and, inoculate and then flush with inert gas, and then stir every few days and add the gas again. But I haven’t been using gas yet so I am wondering if there is another option.

 

[cmason1957]

I always add the mlf after the alcoholic fermentation is complete and after I have racked to a glass carboy and then once more off the gross lees. I don't use inert gas for anything. I can't answer, if mlf will help with the production of a buttery chard. I don't make nearly enough white wine to offer any suggestions.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

I always add the mlf after the alcoholic fermentation is complete and after I have racked to a glass carboy and then once more off the gross lees. I don't use inert gas for anything. I can't answer, if mlf will help with the production of a buttery chard. I don't make nearly enough white wine to offer any suggestions.

so you rack off primary into secondary into a carboy (assume at around 1.01?), then rack again once Af is done (when below .998)? Normally you would sulfite at this point, But instead you inoculate? Do you stir as they suggest during Mlf? If not then I guess O2 exposure isn’t a concern. If you do stir, how do you protect it?

 

[cmason1957]

so you rack off primary into secondary into a carboy (assume at around 1.01?), then rack again once Af is done (when below .998)? Normally you would sulfite at this point, But instead you inoculate? Do you stir as they suggest during Mlf? If not then I guess O2 exposure isn’t a concern. If you do stir, how do you protect it?

I to up the wines very well and stir, very gently, once or twice a week. You are just trying to keep the MLB in suspension. O2 is a concern, but you deal with it.

 

[Sailor323]

. . . most of my Carboys aren’t fully topped up so I want to minimize how long this is a concern. Already poured 9 commercial bottles ($90) into the first 6 and would need another 5 or 6 to fully top off. Plus another 12 for the remaining 5 kits.

Wow, that's a lot of topping up! I rarely need to use more than half a bottle to top up--I use 5 gallon carboys along with smaller vessels for a 23 litre batch after primary fermentation

 

[Old Corker]

I racked my Forte Bordeaux off the skins yesterday at 4 weeks. I hand squeezed the 4 bags of skins and got maybe a bottle out of them. I’m going to have to come up with a rudimentary press going forward as the racking yielded 10.5 gallons out of 12 gallons of must. This wine is going to be good and I want to get all I can.

 

[Rocky]

Wow, that's a lot of topping up! I rarely need to use more than half a bottle to top up--I use 5 gallon carboys along with smaller vessels for a 23 litre batch after primary fermentation

Sailor, that is what I do also. I very rarely "top up," rather I "size down." I find that if I start with a 6-gallon batch, in a 6-gallon carboy, after a few rackings, I am left with a 5-gallon carboy and some extra. Over time, I have amassed a collection of carboys (2, 3, 5 and 6-gallon), plus a number of other vessels (1/2 and 1-gallon jugs, 3-liter bottles, 1500 ml bottles, etc.) and I move the wine down into them as the volume decreases due to sediment and evaporation. Another thing I don't do is try to get every drop out of the carboy. A lot of that "stuff" at the bottom of the carboy is junk and I feel it harms the wine. I remember how my grandfather used to prize the "first run" of wine and always kept that separate "per la famiglia e i buoni amici" (for the family and good friends).

 

[joeswine]

You. Are correct Rocky , racking down is the correct way to keep the flow safe especially if you don’t use inert gasses.