Help with small vineyard planning

[ChuckD]

You are off to a good start. You have a lot of advice but you need to figure it out for your site. See how it goes. Learning by doing is the best education. I have taken viticulture courses of all stages but nothing beats standing in the vineyard, starting at a vine (or 200, 400, 1000) and trying to envision how this vine should be pruned.

If your soil is heavy, do plan on an auger for planting. We have a steep slope and both red and yellow clay. If we use a plow, the danger is erosion (severe washing off) of the top soil (happened in the past - the reason my garden has 2 feet of top soil). If I was digging by hand, I would still be planting the first 1/4 acre.

Many things to consider and you WILL do something you regret. Just go with the flow and enjoy the process.

Thanks for all the advice. The soil is a clay loam that was farmed for many years so there’s a good 10” of topsoil and not so steep that I need to worry about erosion before I get the grass established. This spring the neighbor who farms the field is going to plow, disk, and drag. Then I’ll plant grass in on the whole 1/2 acre. I don’t have an auger so I’ll be digging by hand. It’s not too bad with a breaker bar since most of the rock is smaller than a softball. How deep do you need the hole for vines?

I’ll start two rows of vines this year, a short row each of blackberries and raspberries, and 4 to 6 apples. Hoping to retire in four years. then I can start on the big projects!!

 

[BigDaveK]

As far as the deer go, I have never had a problem with them and my vines in 10+ years. They love my hostas but Liquid Fence works great. The only thing I can think of that protects my grapes is that they like my apple trees a LOT more. Raccoons too. My trees are maybe 150 feet from the vines. Maybe planting a sacrificial fruit that they like MORE would work.

 

[ChuckD]

Maybe planting a sacrificial fruit that they like MORE would work.

That would be my vegetable garden

What kind of vines do you have?

 

[VinesnBines]

When planting my vines, I auger a 12 inch diameter hole about 12 to 18 inches deep. This breaks up the soil for the roots. I’ve never trimmed roots and the vines do fine.

 

[BigDaveK]

That would be my vegetable garden

What kind of vines do you have?

Ah, my vegetable garden is a different story. 6 foot fence that is also buried almost a foot in the ground. I still get the odd groundhog and I'm absolutely certain they have teleportation technology.

I was so careful when I planted my vines and everything was labeled. A job and life intervened. I have the original packaging somewhere in my barn and maybe I'll find them. I'm at that age where I remember song lyrics from the 60's, 70's, and 80's but forget why I went into a room. I know I have some Concord and Catawba but the other 4 varieties are a mystery right now.

 

[VinesnBines]

I was so careful when I planted my vines and everything was labeled. A job and life intervened. I have the original packaging somewhere in my barn and maybe I'll find them. I'm at that age where I remember song lyrics from the 60's, 70's, and 80's but forget why I went into a room. I know I have some Concord and Catawba but the other 4 varieties are a mystery right now.

I'm in the process of labeling and tagging. I have 18 different varieties and 1100 vines; my oldest son warned me last year to get them labeled or when I'm dead, they will just have "grapes". Anyway , I have it mapped out on paper and in my brain, now I'm tagging rows and where I have an oddity, I'm tagging the individual vines.

Where did you get your vines? Double A usually has a record of orders and I have my orders in email and saved on my PC. That really helps me remember which vines are in what rows and how many in a row.

I'm also learning the difference by sight of the leaves and growth habit.

 

[ChuckD]

I was so careful when I planted my vines and everything was labeled.

Yeah. For me it seems even labeling isn’t fool proof. I label all my plants in the garden and lose half of them by the end of the year. Last year I somehow mixed up the labels on my tomato plants while repotting and my 8 early girls ended up being cherry tomatoes!
EIGHT CHERRY TOMATOES!!

 

[VinesnBines]

I bought a stamp kit and two inch aluminum blanks for the grapes. I always lose the plant markers in the garden, For the vineyard, I'm nailing the tags to the trellis posts. For the individual vines I'm going to hook them to the fruiting wire.

 

[GSMChris]

I bought a stamp kit and two inch aluminum blanks for the grapes. I always lose the plant markers in the garden, For the vineyard, I'm nailing the tags to the trellis posts. For the individual vines I'm going to hook them to the fruiting wire.

Hi VinesnBines:

That is what I am planning to do as well. In my case, all vines will be trellised and each row will have only one varietal so a tag on the end post will suffice. Where did you get your tags and stamp kit? I've been shopping locally and haven't found anything appropriate.

GSMChris

 

[VinesnBines]

Hi VinesnBines:

That is what I am planning to do as well. In my case, all vines will be trellised and each row will have only one varietal so a tag on the end post will suffice. Where did you get your tags and stamp kit? I've been shopping locally and haven't found anything appropriate.

GSMChris

Amazon of course.
Amazon Basics Stamp Kit
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077K74X4D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1RMP Stamping Blanks 2 inch 14 gouge with hole, 50 pieces.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SXGAY3Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[GSMChris]

Where else indeed.... Thanks

 

[VinesnBines]

I financed Bezos's flight to space.

 

[BigDaveK]

I'm in the process of labeling and tagging. I have 18 different varieties and 1100 vines; my oldest son warned me last year to get them labeled or when I'm dead, they will just have "grapes". Anyway , I have it mapped out on paper and in my brain, now I'm tagging rows and where I have an oddity, I'm tagging the individual vines.

Where did you get your vines? Double A usually has a record of orders and I have my orders in email and saved on my PC. That really helps me remember which vines are in what rows and how many in a row.

I'm also learning the difference by sight of the leaves and growth habit.

WOW, I'm jealous! I'm a bit shy of 50 vines but I hope to change that this year.

For the life of me I can't remember where I got them. Not mail order and not big box. That's one of those things I'll remember in the shower or while doing something else that's mindless.

I noticed I have 5 or 6 obviously different leaves. Maybe I can narrow down what they are that way. I've identified about 55 kinds of trees on my property with a couple more to go so I have "experience".

BTW, each year I can grape leaves early in the year to make dolmades, stuffed grape leaves.

 

[VinesnBines]

WOW, I'm jealous! I'm a bit shy of 50 vines but I hope to change that this year.

For the life of me I can't remember where I got them. Not mail order and not big box. That's one of those things I'll remember in the shower or while doing something else that's mindless.

I noticed I have 5 or 6 obviously different leaves. Maybe I can narrow down what they are that way. I've identified about 55 kinds of trees on my property with a couple more to go so I have "experience".

BTW, each year I can grape leaves early in the year to make dolmades, stuffed grape leaves.

Don't overdo. We have settled on 250 - 300 per year as a workable number to plant each year. We planted nearly 600 our second year and it too 10 days to get them in the ground. With 250 - 300, and dry weather, we manage to finish in about three days.

 

[BigDaveK]

Don't overdo. We have settled on 250 - 300 per year as a workable number to plant each year. We planted nearly 600 our second year and it too 10 days to get them in the ground. With 250 - 300, and dry weather, we manage to finish in about three days.

Time is the big issue. (Well, energy too.) I hope to propagate what I have from this years trimming. I'll put them in pots and see what I get. That buys me some time. My primary project this spring is increasing the size of my vegetable garden.

 

[VinesnBines]

Time is precious. I’m still working and live most of the time, 6 hours from my main vineyard. I have to take vacation to plant.

 

[jackl]

My vineyard fence consists of 4 feet of cattle fencing topped with 2 wires 1 foot apart for a total of 6 feet. I have not had any issues and we have deer roaming all over our property.

 

[ChuckD]

My vineyard fence consists of 4 feet of cattle fencing topped with 2 wires 1 foot apart for a total of 6 feet. I have not had any issues and we have deer roaming all over our property.

Some of the material I have read said you don’t have to make it absolutely deer proof. You just need to make it enough trouble that the deer change their behavior.

For probably 10 years after I built my house I had no deer damage in my garden. It started slowly and I ignored it. Three years later and they were wiping me out! I now have to use a temporary 5 foot poultry netting that my grandson can crawl under and that’s all I need. It’s a long narrow fenced in area and they don’t like jumping into “small” enclosures. Even if I leave the gate open they won’t go in.

 

[ChuckD]

Well after several iterations I think I have my vineyard/orchard/garden plan done. Everything you see inside the fence will be tilled and planted in grass this spring (if it already isn’t).

I have room for about 130 vines, 10 more apple trees, and some small fruits like blackberries and raspberries. Also room to move my garden beds in the future to make room for the pavilion. This should keep me busy as long as I can remain upright . It’s a lot but I love being outside and my time in the garden. I’m starting small with two dozen grapes, six more apples, and several berry bushes. I would plant more but I have to build the house addition this fall!

I have a dozen each of Marquette and Marachael Foch on order but I’m reading so many good things about petite pearl that I wonder if I should add a dozen right away?

also, what are your favorite books/websites to learn grape vine care (spraying) and pruning? I’m flying blind here! Better yet are there any courses where I can get some hands-on training? I learn better by doing!

 

[GSMChris]

A few books:

From Vines to Wines... good basic foundation - the first roughly 1/3 is growing grapes, the second 2/3 is turning juice into wine.

Grape Growers Handbook - much more detailed. Basically a college text book. I dip in and out of here

A Vineyard Odyssey by John Kiger deals with how one guy was as organic as he could be in the Sonoma Valley

An unlikely vineyard about a hardcore organic vineyard in Vermont

Youtube:

There are two good sets of videos by oneacrewine

I also like Michael Neal mjnvsadmin1 - lots of short video clips