mmadmikes1
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Want to barrel age my Syrah. How long is to long to age in an oak barrel, It has a medium toast. Have never put wine in a barrel before
I have a ?? about barrel aging
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djrockinsteve
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Mike, you need to be careful with barrels for many reasons. If not properly prepped they will leak. You need to make sure all bacteria is out and the barrel is fully clean. There are many cracks and crevaces for them to hide.
If it's a new barrel you will get an oak flavor fast. If it's used it will take longer but there is a reason why people sell used barrels. They may have lost much of their flavor or they leak ....etc.
The size of the barrel will also dictate how long. A small barrel will give you a fast oak flavor due to it's larger percentage of barrel to wine ratio.
Best would be to read up on barrel prep and yes sample regularly to get a flavor you like.
If it's a new barrel you will get an oak flavor fast. If it's used it will take longer but there is a reason why people sell used barrels. They may have lost much of their flavor or they leak ....etc.
The size of the barrel will also dictate how long. A small barrel will give you a fast oak flavor due to it's larger percentage of barrel to wine ratio.
Best would be to read up on barrel prep and yes sample regularly to get a flavor you like.
+1 on what djrockinsteve says. Barrel prep is critical or your going to have wine weeping out for days.
If this is a new Vadai 6 gallon barrel I just got one myself this Fall. I am following a break-in procedure I found on another forum whereby you start with your first batch in for only 2 weeks and then each subsequent batch you double your time.
So it looks something like this:
2 weeks first batch
4 weeks second batch
8 weeks third batch
16 weeks fourth batch
32 weeks fifth batch.......
If this is a new Vadai 6 gallon barrel I just got one myself this Fall. I am following a break-in procedure I found on another forum whereby you start with your first batch in for only 2 weeks and then each subsequent batch you double your time.
So it looks something like this:
2 weeks first batch
4 weeks second batch
8 weeks third batch
16 weeks fourth batch
32 weeks fifth batch.......
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djrockinsteve
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Mike I just looked it up and the average barrel lasts 5 years for flavor.
Several wineries will age partially in a new barrel then move to older ones to rest for a year or so.
or age in a new barrel then by using the pearson square blend with the same wine never oaked aged to achieve the desired flavor.
Several wineries will age partially in a new barrel then move to older ones to rest for a year or so.
or age in a new barrel then by using the pearson square blend with the same wine never oaked aged to achieve the desired flavor.
mmadmikes1
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thanmks Guys, gota love attacking a new part of wine making head on.
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The 40L is almost 2X the volume of wine compared to the 23 liter yet the inside surface area of the 40L is not all that much more than the 23L barrel. So yea, big difference in oaking times between the 2 sizes.
Why would I put in in for only 2 weeks?
Because its the first batch in a brand new barrel and I really don't like to drink Chateau Plywood.
As it gets used up I can keep the wine in longer and longer and then I can realize the benefits of micro oxygenation and concentration due to evaporation but you have to start somewhere with a new barrel.
My experience is you can always add more oak if you like but you can't take it out once its in.
Because its the first batch in a brand new barrel and I really don't like to drink Chateau Plywood.
As it gets used up I can keep the wine in longer and longer and then I can realize the benefits of micro oxygenation and concentration due to evaporation but you have to start somewhere with a new barrel.
My experience is you can always add more oak if you like but you can't take it out once its in.
Why yes, yes I do.
And its been my experience that oak doesn't necessarily fade over time and it can in fact intensify.
A little goes a long way.
And its been my experience that oak doesn't necessarily fade over time and it can in fact intensify.
A little goes a long way.
Rock
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No way sorry have been using barrels for years and oak does not intensify.Oak will mellow over time in the bottle.I have bottled wine aged in new oak barrels that were way over powering with oak and after bottle aging for a year or so the wine was winning gold medals.I also agree that 2 weeks will do nothing to your wine.
Guess we will have to agree to disagree then as I have multiple batches not run through a barrel but oak chips in carboy that have stronger oak at 18 months than they did at 3 months or at bottling at 8 months.
I have also noticed oak mellows a little bit with time....
I agree with Ibglowings methods on this.... I have the same brand and size barrels he is talking about. And mine had the same results and time frame. There is alot of different options with new barrels. But at first you get EITHER the correct amount of oak flavor OR micro oxidation, But not both!!!
I have been pondering the idea of returning a wine that went through the barrel quick over a year ago, has been bulk aging since.... Now the barrel has mellowed... Thinking about returning it for micro oxidation for a while????
I agree with Ibglowings methods on this.... I have the same brand and size barrels he is talking about. And mine had the same results and time frame. There is alot of different options with new barrels. But at first you get EITHER the correct amount of oak flavor OR micro oxidation, But not both!!!
I have been pondering the idea of returning a wine that went through the barrel quick over a year ago, has been bulk aging since.... Now the barrel has mellowed... Thinking about returning it for micro oxidation for a while????
I think its possible that you notice the oak more after the WINE has mellowed. Maybe its a bit harsh and covers the oakiness for your tastes at bottling Ibglowin.
As Ibglowin stated earlier and I must agree.... These Small barrels (3-6 gallon) are a different monster. The have massive ratio's of suface area compared to wine volume.
As Ibglowin stated earlier and I must agree.... These Small barrels (3-6 gallon) are a different monster. The have massive ratio's of suface area compared to wine volume.
We are very interested in trying barrels for ageing, however I have a large gap in understanding... The big question I have is if I'm making a 6g batch of wine, what size barrel should I use? IE: 1 6g or 2 3g or 6 1g? Is there a book that talks in detail about the oak barrel process?
Joel,
I was thinking the exact same thing on my fresh grape Cab and Merlot. The Merlot was in for the standard 2 weeks (1st batch), followed by the Cab for 4 weeks. I may not bottle these guys for close to 2 years so I have plenty of time to return to the same barrel for more concentration once it has had a few more batches run through it. I am losing 2-3 ounces a week to the "angels". Is that about in line with what you are seeing?
Thats 2/3 a bottle in 2 months.
Makes me think I should order a 2nd Vadai here in the Spring!
@ WeLoveCab: Vadai has a 5.3 or a 6 gallon Barrel. The smallest is 2.7 gallon. I would go for the 5.3 or 6 gallon. If you go with the 5.3 you should have enough left over from a 6 gallon kit to top off for a while. I went with the 6 gallon and top off with what doesn't fit and then switch if needed to a like commercial.
I was thinking the exact same thing on my fresh grape Cab and Merlot. The Merlot was in for the standard 2 weeks (1st batch), followed by the Cab for 4 weeks. I may not bottle these guys for close to 2 years so I have plenty of time to return to the same barrel for more concentration once it has had a few more batches run through it. I am losing 2-3 ounces a week to the "angels". Is that about in line with what you are seeing?
Thats 2/3 a bottle in 2 months.
Makes me think I should order a 2nd Vadai here in the Spring!
@ WeLoveCab: Vadai has a 5.3 or a 6 gallon Barrel. The smallest is 2.7 gallon. I would go for the 5.3 or 6 gallon. If you go with the 5.3 you should have enough left over from a 6 gallon kit to top off for a while. I went with the 6 gallon and top off with what doesn't fit and then switch if needed to a like commercial.
It could also be a difference in extraction rates and or efficiency of Cubes vs Barrel. When you think about it, Wine has access to the entire volume of the Oak Cube (or Bean) where as in a Barrel it only gets to the inner wall. So in theory you may be able to get a whole lot more oak flavor out of a small amount of Beans than say a small Barrel.
Apples and Oranges perhaps.
Apples and Oranges perhaps.
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AlFulchino
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Joel...you want micro-ox? Flex Tanks....nothing romantic about them...but they ARE consistent....not as pretty as stainless...so put a painting in front of them 
there you go Wade...another possible advertiser
there you go Wade...another possible advertiser
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Joel...you want micro-ox? Flex Tanks....nothing romantic about them...but they ARE consistent....not as pretty as stainless...so put a painting in front of them
there you go Wade...another possible advertiser
Thanks!!! There is more to a barrel than oak!
Three thing happen with a barrel.
1) Oak flavor
2) micro oxidation (softening)
3) concentration (due to evaporation)
The main reason why they sell used barrels is that the wineries are more interested in oak flavor than the other two mojor advantages.
If using an oak barrel you could simply scrape the inside and re-toast (rather labor intensive requiring a lot of skill) or you could just simply add oak beads to the barrel to gain all THREE benefits.
As far as how long to age, this depends on your tastes. I can state that it is an absolute FACT that oak flavor will fade over time. I have been using the same oaking process for over 20 years and can tell you that the oak most cetainly will fade. The time it takes, however, can be several years.
John, would you be so kind as to share with us what your 20 year oaking process is?
Much thanks,
Much thanks,
Rock
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I agree with John i have a 120L french oak new barrel i broke in with a cab blend.Took the wine out at 8 months,it has been siting in a 3 year old barrel for 4 months and the oak has mellowed out so much i think i might want to add some more oak.But i notice like i do with the wines i run through my barrels that it is now micro oxidizing and condensing.
