I think it's "Stuck" - Add Nutrient, Energizer, or...?

[Wooden]

Yesterday I posted about my concern about a wine that remains at 1.065.

It was suggested that I open and stir, which I did.

When I stirred it, I was able to kind of rouse a krausen and I could hear the bubbles go "zzzz" as I stirred. I proceeded to leave only loosely covered w the lid.

Anyway, checking the gravity today (24 hr later) the hydrometer has not budged, and remains at 1.065.

My recipe is:

Must: unfiltered maple sap boiled down to 1.092 chilled with wort chiller.

4 gal batch:
1 tsp acid blend/gal
1 tsp nutrient/gal
Lalvin D-47 yeast, rehydrated
Fermented at 70F, after 2 days moved to 65F.
Immediately put under airlock, but have since changed this per suggestion in this thread: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53436

Since realizing it is not progressing as it should I have bumped it back up to 70F.

I will continue to stir 2x daily and leave loosely covered however I wonder if I need to do any of the following:

-Add yeast nutrient?
-Add yeast energizer?
-Pitch additional yeast?
-(or pitch a stronger yeast?)

This is about all I can think of - would any of these be appropriate? I did not add energizer initially as the recipe I found did not call for it.

I can also rule out infection as the must tastes good, just how you would expect it to at 1.065 - sweeeet!

Thanks,

Wooden

 

[Spikedlemon]

It seems to be in the right range for temp & abv.
http://catalogapp.lallemandwine.com/uploads/yeasts/docs/1317dc750dd46376e409cb2b3ed050949d1cbcc0.pdf

Any reason for the D47 in the first place?
http://www.homebrewit.com/media/pdf/Lalvin_Yeast_Reference_Chart.pdf

 

[Wooden]

It seems to be in the right range for temp & abv.
http://catalogapp.lallemandwine.com/uploads/yeasts/docs/1317dc750dd46376e409cb2b3ed050949d1cbcc0.pdf

Any reason for the D47 in the first place?
http://www.homebrewit.com/media/pdf/Lalvin_Yeast_Reference_Chart.pdf

I used D47 for a couple of reasons. It was a guess, but here were my thoughts: (keep in mind this is a maple wine so, no yeast specifically designed for it, and for the most part it's pretty much uncharted territory):

1) D47 is very popular for use in Meads, users there have reported it as being pretty reliable but not stripping the flavor, etc.

2) I have heard of champagne/aggressive yeast like Pasteur Champagne, EC-1118 fermenting too fast/too dry and stripping the maple wine of it's flavor and causing an unbearably solventy flavor. I have heard, though, that these can be amazing after like 8 years of bulk aging, ... But that's a really, really long time.

(#2 could not be true, but could also be plausible. Working with very little data here)

3) maple wine, like mead is often likened to a white wine. I expected it would be most similar to maybe a Chardonnay with lots of oak in it (some people reported "oaky" flavors in their Maple wine w/o adding any) I have heard D-47 be appropriate for a chard, so I went with that.

4) overall felt D47 would be the best fit in terms of flavor (and not emphasizing flowery flavors like 71B) etc.

Overall right now I am pleased with the flavor profile it is presenting, although it is a bit early to say.

 

[Turock]

It's stuck because of lack of nutrient. One upfront dose of nutrient is not enough. Step feeding nutrient in 2 or 3 doses is the way to go. Do some reading on nutrient, as posting the entire protocol would take a lot of time and there is much already written on it at various sites.

 

[Wooden]

Thanks I will.
The one point of confusion I have is if I need to add yeast energizer as well (as I did not do this initially either).

I have read on this at some point in the past and have heard that it matters how far along you are in the ferment (relative to OG/FG) as to whether you need energizer or not.

Thanks,

Wooden

 

[richmke]

Add a yeast energizer. Wait a day or two.

If nothing happens, then pitch more yeast. You don't need more energizer at that point since you already added it.

Yeast Nutrient is used at the beginning of a ferment. Yeast Energizer is for the latter stages.

Oddly enough, Yeast Energizer contains more "stuff" than Yeast Nutrient. I think the theory is: At the beginning, the Juice has enough "stuff", and Yeast Nutrient primarily boosts Nitrogen. In the middle of the ferment, when the "stuff" is used up, Yeast Energizer gives a multi-vitamin boost (the "stuff").

There is also something called "lipids", which is helpful during the beginning of a ferment when the yeast is multiplying. Ghostex provides that.

 

[bkisel]

For the fruit/country wines that I make I stir in 3 tsp. of yeast nutrient and 1 tsp. of yeast energizer. This is done about 24 hours before I pitch the yeast. It is for a 6 gallon batch. None of the kits I've done have included either nutrient or energizer.

Because I started wine making with kits and it is what the instructions have said I've always pitched my yeast with the must in the mid 70F range (74-78F) and keep it there until fermentation begins.

Good luck!

 

[Pobol_y_Cwm]

Definitely lack of nutrient. Maple sap is poor in nutrients; you can often get away with no nutrients at all in a fruit wine (especially something like damson), and cider doesn't need it at all, but maple sap is kind of like a sugar wash with some flavour. Sugar washes at >1.08 or so OG are very prone to sticking

As others said, put in nutrient, see if that works and if not pitch in another dose of yeast. You may need something less fussy to restart from 1.065. I had a brew that stuck at 1.05, and the only way to shift it was with an aggressive general purpose yeast. I appreciate that it may mess up your flavour profile...and you might have to be prepared to crash it before it's done. Those sugary washes with a keen yeast can go all the way down to below 1.0, and that may not be so good.

 

[Arne]

Bet if you get it back up around 75 degrees or so, it will take back off. Get it warmed, stir it good, keep your nutrients up and maybe a shot of energizer also. Good luck with it, Arne.

 

[Wooden]

Bet if you get it back up around 75 degrees or so, it will take back off. Get it warmed, stir it good, keep your nutrients up and maybe a shot of energizer also. Good luck with it, Arne.

Thanks guys, Gave it a shot of the energizer yesterday. Have been stirring couple times a day as well.

Along Arne's lines of advice I might stick it in my "warm" box (styrofoam lager box recently donated) where my red wine is fermenting and my IPA is dry-hopping, and throw the maple wine in there.

I think 75 is pretty warm for this yeast, but I wonder if it wouldn't hurt at this point. Getting to the point where I'm thinkin bout just pitching KV-1116 or EC-1118 or something else aggressive but hoping to keep this one lower key (but not as low key as 1.06). Thanks for understanding guys!

 

[Wooden]

So, just after my last post, I checked the SG. 1.062. But still, that's not super significant.

I stirred like mad for a couple minutes, then decided to move it to a lil warmer part of the house.

If it is still not changing by morning,, I will put it in the "lager" box (75F) and give it a day.

If it has still not made significant progress (say, below 1.055) then I think I will proceed with pitching more yeast.

Should I stick with D-47 or rip out the big guns woth something like KV-1116, EC-1118, Premier Cuvée, Pasteur Champagne, etc. ??

Just let me know if it is worth trying to save the flavor profile with the D-47, if not, and if there Are just more risks to doing that I would be happy to pitch another yeast per your recommendation... If one would be better than the other got this let me know...


Thanks，

Wooden

 

[heatherd]

@Wooden

Try repitching the D-47 and see if it works. If not, you could use EC-1118 to finish.

Good luck!

 

[Wooden]

Bet if you get it back up around 75 degrees or so, it will take back off. Get it warmed, stir it good, keep your nutrients up and maybe a shot of energizer also. Good luck with it, Arne.

Did this yesterday around right after I last posted, and woke up today to a pleasant layer of bubbles, and the biting vapor of co2 production!

@heather - looks like I am back in business again now, with the warmer temp! But I am glad you mentions it because I was wondering if that would work as a backup and I appreciate you laying out that option for me as well.

Was busy brewing a batch of beer today, (that had some problems),so I did not stir or test SG, but will have to do those tomorrow..

Cheers!

Wooden

 

[Wooden]

So, an update: the wine is currently at 1.055.
Not as much as I hoped, but it did improve!

While yesterday the fermentation was clearly going nice and strong, it has subsided a lot today...*I attribute that to the temp falling in the past 24 hr (20 deg cooler, windy). So where it is sitting is 5-10 deg cooler now.

So an hour ago, put it in the "warm" box that is in the mid 70's.

Question now is to pitch or not to pitch? What do you think is better for the wine given that it is progressing, albeit slowly? Any risk to just waiting it out a couple more days and seeing if it drops another point here?

If I pitch should I make a yeast starter? I know a little bit about this from beer and I have nutrients... The only thing is, would I use a fruit juice like apple or grape, or make up a "maple" must for it to start in? All the instructions say to use grape or the actual must or apple, but I think they're also assuming you are making grape wine or apple wine or whatever too.

 

[Masbustelo]

I would add to check your pH.

 

[Arne]

So, an update: the wine is currently at 1.055.
Not as much as I hoped, but it did improve!

While yesterday the fermentation was clearly going nice and strong, it has subsided a lot today...*I attribute that to the temp falling in the past 24 hr (20 deg cooler, windy). So where it is sitting is 5-10 deg cooler now.

So an hour ago, put it in the "warm" box that is in the mid 70's.

Question now is to pitch or not to pitch? What do you think is better for the wine given that it is progressing, albeit slowly? Any risk to just waiting it out a couple more days and seeing if it drops another point here?

If I pitch should I make a yeast starter? I know a little bit about this from beer and I have nutrients... The only thing is, would I use a fruit juice like apple or grape, or make up a "maple" must for it to start in? All the instructions say to use grape or the actual must or apple, but I think they're also assuming you are making grape wine or apple wine or whatever too.

As long as it is fermenting, keep it warm, give it a stir and let it go. It should eventually finish out. Good luck with it, Arne.

 

[Whitehrs]

I'm a newbie, but I would agree with Arne on this. If the fermentation is happening, let it happen. I have a batch of mead that has been steadily at about 1 bubble per 2 to 3 seconds for about 3 weeks now. It went from 1.110 to 1.030 in just 3 days, then Bloop..................Bloop.................Bloop so on. I have not checked it as I figure it needs to be done, and it will be done when it's done. Then I can let it rest a while, and test. To me the long Fermentation process would seem to be the right way..

 

[Wooden]

As long as it is fermenting, keep it warm, give it a stir and let it go. It should eventually finish out. Good luck with it, Arne.

So, update:

Checked the wine and a healthy layer of krausen had formed.
SG: 1.04-1.045

Taste is more wine like. More noticeable acid bite.
Not sure if this is because it is becoming more acidic, or the acids in it just show through more because there is less sugar left. Had not been tracking this (I am a noob, and yes, I know this is kind of a ridiculous first-wine project, but still)

Took pH strip reading (I know they are not all that accurate, but I am noob)
PH looks just as if someone had gotten the paper wet with water (if it was a regular non-reactive paper).

According to that, the Ph would be... Somewhere between... yellow and Orange? So about a 5?

Does that even help? Lol.

 

[Siddersquid]

I seem to have 2 stuck ferments at the moment. 2 nights ago my fig wine was bubbling away nicely, I gave it a good stir and th next morning it had stopped. I'm keeping it near to a radiator in the evenings but that doesn't seem to have helped. Do you think it might be the yeast? I have used a supposedly fast fermenting yeast. I've had similar problems with my red grape wine.

 

[Wooden]

I seem to have 2 stuck ferments at the moment. 2 nights ago my fig wine was bubbling away nicely, I gave it a good stir and th next morning it had stopped. I'm keeping it near to a radiator in the evenings but that doesn't seem to have helped. Do you think it might be the yeast? I have used a supposedly fast fermenting yeast. I've had similar problems with my red grape wine.

What was your OG?
What is your SG now?
What yeast did you use?
Did you use yeast nutrients? (How much/when)
What temperature are you fermenting at?

These are kind of the vital signs and background we need to be able to help diagnose it. There may be more but knowing these 5 things would help get us close.

Wooden