I'm going commercial...

Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

crushday

grape juice artisan
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
3,668
Location
PNW - South Sound
It will come as no surprise to those who recognize my posts on this site that I've decided to take my winemaking to the next level and going commercial in 2025. This past summer I purchased a property in Montana with a very large shop for this purpose. Below are a couple pics of the shop. The seller is a car enthusiast and the place was basically a museum for all his memorabilia. He's renting from me until the end of March 2025, at which time I will take possession and quickly get things set up for winemaking beginning in September 2025. I'm meeting with my architect on January 13 to get him working up the plans for the crush pad. I need plans for my contractor and his subs (concrete specifically) to get the bids out and jobs secured before things go nuts in the construction industry this coming spring/summer.

I think we're all aware of the downward pressure recently put on grape and wine sales in America (and beyond?) and you might question my timing in this endeavor. You're asking the right questions and I appreciate the heart behind the concerns. The winery will be in the Billings, Montana area. If you know Montana, Billings is the largest metro area of Montana and there are few places to purchase wine: 1) Fine/Finer restaurants, 2) Costco and other grocery stores, 3) City Vineyard (the only store exclusively for wine sales) and 4) one unnamed winery. Within a 180 mile radius, only one other winery. In a 350 mile radius, two wineries including the afore mentioned in the 180 mile range. In short, I see it as a great opportunity. I believe that people will appreciate meticulously and locally crafted wines from exclusive vineyards in California, Oregon and Washington states.

I've been in the process of setting up multi-year contracts with the vineyards I currently purchase grapes; I'm inking those deals now. I'll likely need to purchase a BUNCH of additional equipment by this fall but I'm currently set up to easily make 1000 cases of wine annually and can store 2-3X that for aging. I am currently working with two local wineries who are going out of business and want to sell all their equipment to one entity. However, their stuff is pretty old (bottling line, specifically) but tanks, fermenters and hardware don't really grow old.

My vision is to create experiences. Each label will have a unique QR code and points people to a page on the website designed to enhance their experience. There they will find winemaking notes, food pairing ideas with recipes, movie and music pairing and party ideas. The tasting room will accentuate all senses. I have been doing a TON of study on how to engage senses. What all the senses have in common is that they collect some kind of information from the environment and convert it to a signal that can travel to the brain. This creates a memory. You'll know this: There are certain tastes and smells that take us back many years like it was yesterday. This is how powerful the brain is. It will be a big part of what I'm going to create. Here's a shell of a website: burgincellars.com

Please let me know what I'm missing. I'll be relocating winemaking operations from the Seattle Metro to Montana next year. BTW, I would never attempt this idea in either of the afore mentioned states where I purchase grapes. There are simply too many wineries in those states to substantively stick out. Montana, however, is a ripe market with a very strong economy. Billings, specifically, has very close proximity to Yellowstone National Park and Grand Teton National Park (Wyoming). We'll have traffic from NP tourists too. I'm excited about it.

Now, as per normal, a few pics...

2693cd0136ef9d7bc7094aa712381177-uncropped_scaled_within_1536_1152.jpeg85ea854fd844c76fc4f30486027b8fc3-uncropped_scaled_within_1536_1152.jpeg2345755d295e17b9355b41eab3cc985a-uncropped_scaled_within_1536_1152.jpegdcfb5601c32baa6d3435a62888eb3147-uncropped_scaled_within_1536_1152.jpege0ee402c776f63874c451eb421af670d-uncropped_scaled_within_1536_1152.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Can’t wait to visit George! I love the concept and I think you’ve found a great market opportunity there. Excited for the adventures ahead!

Chris
 
George, it appears you have your bases covered. Congratulations!

Document your process here -- I'm sure numerous members dream of opening a winery, and an ongoing description of your efforts will helps folks determine if starting a winery is a realistic thing for them.

Are there any legal issues with bringing in out of state grapes? Some states require a certain percentage of the grapes be grown in the state.

Are you considering making wine from locally sourced grapes? I don't think of wine production when I think of Montana ... silly me, there is a grape research center at Montana State U.

https://agresearch.montana.edu/warc/research_current/grapes/index.html
 
Any plans to establish a vineyard? Here in NE WI we have wineries that specialize in locally grown cold-hardy grapes and others that clearly maintain a small vineyard for the ambience.
 
It will come as no surprise to those who recognize my posts on this site that I've decided to take my winemaking to the next level and going commercial in 2025. This past summer I purchased a property in Montana with a very large shop for this purpose. Below are a couple pics of the shop. The seller is a car enthusiast and the place was basically a museum for all his memorabilia. He's renting from me until the end March 2025, at which time I will take possession and quickly get things set up for winemaking beginning in September 2025. I'm meeting with my architect on January 13 to get him working up the plans for the crush pad. I need plans for my contractor and his subs (concrete specifically) to get the bids out and jobs secured before things go nuts in the construction industry this coming spring/summer.

I think we're all aware of the downward pressure recently put on grape and wine sales in America (and beyond?) and you might question my timing in this endeavor. You're asking the right questions and I appreciate the heart behind the concerns. The winery will be in the Billings, Montana area. If you know Montana, Billings is the largest metro area of Montana and there are few places to purchase wine: 1) Fine/Finer restaurants, 2) Costco and other grocery stores, 3) City Vineyard (the only store exclusively for wine sales) and 4) one unnamed winery. Within a 180 mile radius, only one other winery. In a 350 mile radius, two wineries including the afore mentioned in the 180 mile range. In short, I see it as a great opportunity. I believe that people will appreciate meticulously and locally crafted wines from exclusive vineyards in California, Oregon and Washington states.

I've been in the process of setting up multi-year contracts with the vineyards I currently purchase grapes; I'm inking those deals now. I'll likely need to purchase a BUNCH of additional equipment by this fall but I'm currently set up to easily make 1000 cases of wine annually and can store 2-3X that for aging. I am currently working with two local wineries who are going out of business and want to sell all their equipment to one entity. However, their stuff is pretty old (bottling line, specifically) but tanks and fermenters and, hardware don't really grow old.

My vision is to create experiences. Each label will have a unique QR code and points people to a page on the website designed to enhance their experience. There they will find winemaking notes, food pairing ideas with recipes, movie and music pairing and party ideas. The tasting room will accentuate all senses. I have been doing a TON of study on how to engage senses. What all the senses have in common is that they collect some kind of information from the environment and convert it to a signal that can travel to the brain. This creates a memory. You'll know this: There are certain tastes and smells that take us back many years like it was yesterday. This is how powerful the brain is. It will be a big part of what I'm going to create. Here's a shell of a website: burgincellars.com

Please let me know what I'm missing. I'll be relocating winemaking operations from the Seattle Metro to Montana next year. BTW, I would never attempt this idea in either of the afore mentioned states where I purchase grapes. There are simply too many wineries in those states to substantively stick out. Montana, however, is a ripe market with a very strong economy. I'm excited about it.

Now, as per normal, a few pics...

View attachment 118958View attachment 118959View attachment 118960View attachment 118961View attachment 118962
Very, very cool. You are a lucky guy!
My immediate reaction - you have wisely broken the market myth that wineries must create wine from local grapes. The assumption that all wineries are use local grapes limits the quality of wines to the quality of local grapes. That, in turn, limits fine wine tasting experiences to California, Oregon, Wash, etc. “Fly over” areas that do not have good local grapes miss out on the experience of a fine wine tasting room.
 
Congratulations George!

700+ miles is a LONG way to haul grapes! (Eastern WA to Billings). The space looks perfect.
 
garage mod.pngJust playin. I think I would be tempted to replace the garage door with a large wooden barn door as a formal entrance. I would also lay stone around the door to break up the siding and make it more formal.

Also, I would convert the driveway into a garden with a pathway.
 
The existing building decor looks good. It would be nice to keep some garage related items. , , , unless your theme conflicts with cars. My read is that Midwest wineries cash flow as amorphous event spaces for weddings. With a college and population center the question maybe should be how many wedding barns and legion halls are there?

One thing that I have seen in startups in Wisconsin is that they contract the first two to three years of sales from a regional winery. What kind of inventory do you have? Projected sales?

@Garagista would redo the large garage door. There are churches and wedding venues here that have a roll up door that is mostly glass. Solid is good for traffic control but not necessarily inviting,,, shape reflects purpose.
 
My read is that Midwest wineries cash flow as amorphous event spaces for weddings. With a college and population center the question maybe should be how many wedding barns and legion halls are there?
That's common in NC as well, wineries having a space to host events.

Another biggie is live music and food trucks.

Anything that brings people to the winery is a good thing. If this is an idea, make sure you have sweet wines. CA wineries may be able make only dry whites and reds ... other states cannot. A lot of non-dry wine is sold.
 
Wow, congratulations - I thought that your 2024 harvest was a bit excessive for just one home winemaker, now I see the reason behind it...
It sounds like you've got the basics of planning equipment and production down. How is the regulatory side of things? I'm guessing you didn't mention it because it's 'just boring paperwork', but there is a ton of stuff to take care of (at least here in California - maybe MT is more relaxed?) Not just being licensed and bonded to produce and sell alcohol, but little details like what has to go where on the bottle labels (which can be pretty obscure and specific).

Good luck!
 
IIRC you can not sell any wine (legally) that was made in previous years that you were not a legally bonded/licensed winery.

This is why newly minted wineries rely on making a ton of white wines the first few years as the proverbial "cash cow" to jump start sales until the first reds are available for release after 2 years or so.

One thing that I have seen in startups in Wisconsin is that they contract the first two to three years of sales from a regional winery. What kind of inventory do you have? Projected sales?
 
IIRC you can not sell any wine (legally) that was made in previous years that you were not a legally bonded/licensed winery.

This is why newly minted wineries rely on making a ton of white wines the first few years as the proverbial "cash cow" to jump start sales until the first reds are available for release after 2 years or so.
Ha, ha - good point. "Chateau Cashflow"
 

Latest posts

Back
Top