Is it worth it to make a second run wine?

[Rocky]

I am really enjoying this thread because I like hearing about others' experiences. I am having a little difficulty in following some of the posts because of my understanding of what "pomace" is. To me, pomace is the pressed skins of the grapes and all I ever used this for was compost. I have never used this in wine making. The only other use I have heard of for pomace is as a base in another process (which we do not discuss on this site).

 

[TurkeyHollow]

I followed an old recipe then tried to modify the ratios. Turns out the old timers had the optimum recipe for mediocrity (as it never got any better). I also saw a recipe for a 3rd run using half the additions (1 qt water, 1/2 lb. sugar, etc.) but since I can get real fruit, I just never saw the need to waste the time. At that point, it's just lightly colored sugar-wine.

 

[winemaker81]

I am really enjoying this thread because I like hearing about others' experiences. I am having a little difficulty in following some of the posts because of my understanding of what "pomace" is. To me, pomace is the pressed skins of the grapes and all I ever used this for was compost. I have never used this in wine making. The only other use I have heard of for pomace is as a base in another process (which we do not discuss on this site).

I admit I am using the term "pomace" more generically and somewhat incorrectly. Pomace is the remains of fruit after pressing, and applies to grapes, olives, and other pressed fruit.

"Second run wine" operates on the premise that there is value remaining in the pomace. I and others have demonstrated proof that this concept is true, but as the thread indicates, the individual conditions directly affect the quality of the result.

One person I knew BITD made third run wine ... which resembled alcoholic Kool-Aid, so there is a limit to how much effective re-use can be made.

 

[winemaker81]

I followed an old recipe then tried to modify the ratios. Turns out the old timers had the optimum recipe for mediocrity (as it never got any better). I also saw a recipe for a 3rd run using half the additions (1 qt water, 1/2 lb. sugar, etc.) but since I can get real fruit, I just never saw the need to waste the time. At that point, it's just lightly colored sugar-wine.

You raise a good point -- the intent of the winemaker produces a difference. Some of the guys I knew wanted to make something alcoholic to drink while the first run was aging. Others were making a lighter wine to drink in that same period.

If I re-use the pomace with water again, I'll probably go with a 4:1 ratio rather than 2:1. However, using the pomace to improve a kit or juice bucket makes a first run wine (full bodied), not a second run. YMMV

 

[TurkeyHollow]

You raise a good point -- the intent of the winemaker produces a difference. Some of the guys I knew wanted to make something alcoholic to drink while the first run was aging. Others were making a lighter wine to drink in that same period.

If I re-use the pomace with water again, I'll probably go with a 4:1 ratio rather than 2:1. However, using the pomace to improve a kit or juice bucket makes a first run wine (full bodied), not a second run. YMMV

You have to remember, we're standing on the shoulders of giants. All this has been tried and done before. I've seen very little on these forums that used new ideas for making wine. I may have seen it here first, then read about the same process somewhere else being done generations ago. Sure the technology for getting more accurate measurements and better hygiene has improved by leaps and bounds, but the principles are still the same. What I like best about these discussions is that it points me in the direction of a rabbit hole I would have normally overlooked. Also, the many contributors confirm my results. So thanks for that, everyone!

 

[David Violante]

I am really enjoying hearing other’s experiences as well~

@AFW this is what happens when you get a bunch of us together contemplating a topic…! Thank you for your question~

 

[AFW]

David I am enjoying the conversation as well.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

I haven't made a second run wine but I did make a hard press wine one year. Typically, with a basket press the first press doesn't recover all the juice, even if you press quite robustly. For my 2021 pinot noir I pressed out 1/2T grapes, yielding a (60 gal) barrel plus several carboys of topping wine. We saved the pomace and re-pressed, yielding about 5 gal which was kept separate.

The 'hard press' wine was definitely inferior to the first press wine, though still quite drinkable. We use it mainly for cooking (beef bourgguignon, etc) though several glasses have been known to make their way into the cooks as well...

This year I made white and red pinot noir, and saved the pomace from 2 of the white wine press runs to add to the red pinot. Too early to tell, of course, but I think it's going to be a big, bold and rich style of pinot noir.

 

[winemaker81]

I haven't made a second run wine but I did make a hard press wine one year. Typically, with a basket press the first press doesn't recover all the juice, even if you press quite robustly. For my 2021 pinot noir I pressed out 1/2T grapes, yielding a (60 gal) barrel plus several carboys of topping wine. We saved the pomace and re-pressed, yielding about 5 gal which was kept separate.

The 'hard press' wine was definitely inferior to the first press wine, though still quite drinkable. We use it mainly for cooking (beef bourgguignon, etc) though several glasses have been known to make their way into the cooks as well...

This year I made white and red pinot noir, and saved the pomace from 2 of the white wine press runs to add to the red pinot. Too early to tell, of course, but I think it's going to be a big, bold and rich style of pinot noir.

Try using rice hulls in pressing. That really improves extraction.

We don't use hulls for the first run, but do for the second.

The extra skins in the PN should make a positive difference.

 

[Garagista]

Love those carboy carriers….

Thanks, those are mostly to eliminate the carboys from bumping and for storing empty. They are not strong enough to carry a full carboy.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092LGVVV6

 

[Garagista]

Love those carboy carriers….

Thanks(giving)!!