Kits versus wine from crushing grapes

[vacuumpumpman]

I've only used fresh grapes until this summer. I bought a 5 gallon bucket of frozen juice from winegrapesdirect.com. They're not cheap but they're getting super premium fruit from top vineyards. They also gave me a bottle of their Syrah, which was fantastic. I bought their Chardonnay and it's fermenting now. So that's another option.


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I also tried their product as well - It was definitely very good , but a bit pricey.
I tried their syrah and cab - both superb !!! nothing but skins !

 

[blumentopferde]

Sorry for my stupid question:

But what are these wine kits all about? Is there still some kind of prohibition going on in the states, that such things would sell?

Sorry, but I've never heard of anything similar in Europe, except for Sweden, where Alcohol is very expensive...

 

[seth8530]

A wine kit, is merely a simplification of the vinification process where all the ingredients needed to make a batch of wine are all included. Thus you can make any type of wine no matter the season or supply of grapes. To me, I feel it sort of defeats the purpose of making wine a bit, but I can certainly understand why they are very popular.

 

[blumentopferde]

A wine kit, is merely a simplification of the vinification process where all the ingredients needed to make a batch of wine are all included. Thus you can make any type of wine no matter the season or supply of grapes. To me, I feel it sort of defeats the purpose of making wine a bit, but I can certainly understand why they are very popular.

I understand what a wine kit is, but I don't understand why it sells!

Here in Europe people who want to drink wine buy wine.
People who want to make wine themselves are a rare kind, are mostly into fruit wines (which are easier to produce than grape wines) and do all the work themselves.
It's very hard to find people that produce grape wines as a hobby, that's why I'm in an american forum. And it's understandable, as you get good quality grape wine for a few bucks...

I just wonder why it is so different in the USA. Is it a matter of price or is it a DIY-mentality?

 

[seth8530]

I would imagine it is also part of the DIY mentality. Ie, I kind of want to make this wine by myself, but I do not want to have to deal with harvesting, crushing, pressing grapes and all the such. Plus, the winemaker still gets the chance to tweak his or her wine during the fermentation process.

I have not made a kit before, but I could see myself making a kit of wine for a juice or grape that is not easily available to me. So that is another reason. I am not sure how much one would save on the $$$, but that might also have something to do with it.

 

[blumentopferde]

So maybe a bit of both! Or I totally underestimate the European's DIY-mentality and it could be a great market niche over here in Europe

 

[seth8530]

See. Now that might be a good idea.

 

[sour_grapes]

Note that the kit manufacturers are based in Canada, and I think the percentage of Canadians that make wine from kits is much higher than in the US. This owes, I believe to the factor you cited for Sweden: high taxes. In most of the states in the US, taxes on wine are high compared to Europe, low compared to Canada.

As for prices, a high-end kit works out to about $5 a bottle. The cheapest commercial wine that I want to drink is about $9 or $10 a bottle. (You can get cheaper commercial wine, down to about $4 a bottle, but these are not so good, IMHO.)

 

[richmke]

I first made wine from a kit for the fun of it. Then I found out that I like kit wine better than commercial wine. Something about kit wine is less harsh, almost a bitter taste I don't like in commercial wine.

I can make a high end kit wine for $6/bottle, and a fruity wine (island mist) for $3. Wines that I would buy at the store for $20 or $10/bottle, respectively. So, that is another plus.

It is also a cheap gift. My wife has started to give it away to all her friends. Fortunately, they like the cheap fruity wines.

Now that I have a stock of wine nicely aging, I am thinking about taking the next step into crushed grapes.

 

[ibglowin]

Its no coincidence that all the kit manufacturers are in Canada. The cost for a bottle of Yellow Tail in Canada is 3-4X what you will pay for it here in the States due to Taxes. Kits are popular because homebrewing is popular here in the states (both beer and wine). Many people do not live in a state that can grow decent grapes so this gives them the chance to DIY with some great materials and it all comes in a box delivered right to your door if need be.

 

[Dugger]

As sour_grapes points out, these kits generally come out of Canada and they were developed because there was a market for them. Our alcoholic drinks are very expensive to buy here because they are taxed so high. There is a fundamental difference between the European view of wine/beer consumption from that of North America. Yours is that of an inclusive part of your diet; ours is that of one of the root causes of all evil. We cannot legally consume alcohol until we are, usually, 19 or 21 and its use is very tightly controlled. Alcohol, along with tobacco products, are prime candidates for "sin" taxes and it is very easy for governments to increase taxes on these. Thus our alcoholic beverages are very expensive.
Wine kits have been available for many years but in the past 10-15 years have become more and more popular as more people switch to wine drinking. The kit quality early on was not good but now many kits, and certainly the ultra premium kits, produce a top quality product, better than the $10-15 wine I can buy.
So economics is what started it and continues to drive it here in Canada. But it is more than that now. Wine drinkers are much more mainstream now and they want access to better and different kinds of wine. Kits manufacturers have recognized this and are trying to meet this demand, by sourcing their grapes from better vineyards around the world. We are able to make wines from grapes normally not available to us and in blends unavailable to us and we can do this year round without special equipment. We can buy a great kit on sale and make it at our leisure instead of needing to make a juice bucket or crushing grapes immediately or keeping it frozen until we do. Even getting fresh grapes or must where I live is extremely expensive (shipping costs in Canada are very high) and I suspect it is similar in many other areas.
Then there is the DIY aspect you have mentioned. There is definitely a satisfaction factor involved, whether you make your wine from kits or grapes or juice or fruit. These processes challenge the home winemaker to make a better product and it can be very self-satisfying. Combine this with inviting family and friends to help with crushing/bottling/drinking and it can be a great social event as well.
Kit wines have proven to be popular and viable in our part of the world but somehow I just don't see that happening in your area. I don't think your wants and needs would support this.
I hope this somewhat answers your question.

 

[bkisel]

I thought that both beer and wine making from kits was pretty popular in England. No?

 

[ibglowin]

I know beer and wine drinking are very popular in the UK!

 

[blumentopferde]

As sour_grapes points out, these kits generally come out of Canada and they were developed because there was a market for them. Our alcoholic drinks are very expensive to buy here because they are taxed so high. There is a fundamental difference between the European view of wine/beer consumption from that of North America. Yours is that of an inclusive part of your diet; ours is that of one of the root causes of all evil. We cannot legally consume alcohol until we are, usually, 19 or 21 and its use is very tightly controlled. Alcohol, along with tobacco products, are prime candidates for "sin" taxes and it is very easy for governments to increase taxes on these. Thus our alcoholic beverages are very expensive.
Wine kits have been available for many years but in the past 10-15 years have become more and more popular as more people switch to wine drinking. The kit quality early on was not good but now many kits, and certainly the ultra premium kits, produce a top quality product, better than the $10-15 wine I can buy.
So economics is what started it and continues to drive it here in Canada. But it is more than that now. Wine drinkers are much more mainstream now and they want access to better and different kinds of wine. Kits manufacturers have recognized this and are trying to meet this demand, by sourcing their grapes from better vineyards around the world. We are able to make wines from grapes normally not available to us and in blends unavailable to us and we can do this year round without special equipment. We can buy a great kit on sale and make it at our leisure instead of needing to make a juice bucket or crushing grapes immediately or keeping it frozen until we do. Even getting fresh grapes or must where I live is extremely expensive (shipping costs in Canada are very high) and I suspect it is similar in many other areas.
Then there is the DIY aspect you have mentioned. There is definitely a satisfaction factor involved, whether you make your wine from kits or grapes or juice or fruit. These processes challenge the home winemaker to make a better product and it can be very self-satisfying. Combine this with inviting family and friends to help with crushing/bottling/drinking and it can be a great social event as well.
Kit wines have proven to be popular and viable in our part of the world but somehow I just don't see that happening in your area. I don't think your wants and needs would support this.
I hope this somewhat answers your question.

That explains a lot, thank you!

So I guess these kits would also work well in Scandinavia, where "sin taxes" are also very high.

To dig deeper into this area: Northern Europe is just like Northern America mostly Protestant, in spite of southern Europe and southern America which are mostly Catholic. Maybe that is the source for the different view on Alcohol. While Protestantism propagates some kind of ascetism, the catholic church is more abundant in it's self concept...

 

[Rocky]

blumentopherde, if you think that the northern US is mostly Protestant and the South is mainly Catholic, you need to check your sources. In actuality, the Northeast of the US is predominately Catholic and the South is very Protestant.

In any case, I believe making wine is a lot like cooking. Although winemaking takes a longer time, many of the cautions we employ are similar. When you make sauce for pasta, do you use fresh tomatoes or canned? When you bake bread, do you mill the wheat or buy flour from the grocer? Do you raise your own chickens, beef cattle, pork, etc. of do you buy these items already processed? I think it is similar with winemaking. I can bake bread using store bought flour but is that not like buying a "kit" for bread and adding the water, yeast, etc.?

 

[sour_grapes]

To dig deeper into this area: Northern Europe is just like Northern America mostly Protestant, in spite of southern Europe and southern America which are mostly Catholic.

blumentopherde, if you think that the northern US is mostly Protestant and the South is mainly Catholic, you need to check your sources. In actuality, the Northeast of the US is predominately Catholic and the South is very Protestant.

I believe she meant "southern America" as in South America. "America" does not mean "US" to many people that live elsewhere.

 

[blumentopferde]

I believe she meant "southern America" as in South America. "America" does not mean "US" to many people that live elsewhere.

Yeah, was actually talking bout North and South America, the continent, not the country!

But I'm really going off-topic now!

 

[sour_grapes]

Well, while we are off-topic: How many continents are there? If you were a French schoolchild in the mid-20th century, you would answer "cinq" (five): Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, and America. That's right: they view Eurasia as two continents, and the Americas as one (and omit Antarctica). This is the symbolism of the five olympic rings.

 

[JohnT]

Just to weigh in here ......

One point that I would like to make is that home winemaking here (USA) is popular here simply because of the American culture.

As a country, we are made up (sadly, almost entirely) of people that have come from other places. A large portion of the poor immigrants coming from continental Europe produced wine back home (in the "old" country) simply because they could not afford to drink it otherwise. When they settled in America and simply continued the practice.

Then came prohibition. During the 14 years of prohibition it was actually LEGAL to make wine or beer at home, but ILLEGAL for anyone to sell it. You could not simply go down to the local store and just buy a bottle. You either made it yourself, knew someone that made it, or went thirsty. In a large way, prohibition spawned the home wine market. Heck, even Ernest and Julio Gallo (one of the larges wine producers in the US) survived prohibition by shipping their California wine grapes to the northeast home wine market in New York or Boston areas (where most immigrants settled).

I know that in my case, a large part of why I make wine at home is to connect with my father's memories of Hungary. I am sure that a large portion of home winemakers out there will be able to say "my grandfather made wine" either because they did it in the old country or they did it during prohibition.



For me, another reason is as others have said. I can produce a wine that rivals a $30 bottle of wine for about $3.50 (glass and cork included). My whole family drinks wine every day and rarely purchases a bottle from a store.

 

[blumentopferde]

Well, while we are off-topic: How many continents are there? If you were a French schoolchild in the mid-20th century, you would answer "cinq" (five): Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, and America. That's right: they view Eurasia as two continents, and the Americas as one (and omit Antarctica). This is the symbolism of the five olympic rings.

That's how I learnt it at school