Making wine in a barrel

[LucasB]

I've been interested in making some fruit or other wine for a while now. Family members used to talk about how my grandpa would just grab dandelions and berries, throw them into an old whiskey barrel, let it sit, then have wine weeks later. I can't find much about this method online but am pretty sure that wasn't done exactly right... I've heard that "finishing" the wine, after it has fermented properly, in the Jack barrel is the way to do it, but would like to get more advice then simply wikihow knowledge.

In short... I bought a used whiskey barrel and want to use it to make wine. Any advice would be welcome. The current plan is to make/ferment the wine first in glass (via equipment/advice from a local wine making store) then transfer it to the barrel which is assumingely airtight

 

[Rocky]

Lucas, I am sure there is a lot more to it than what your family members remember. One can make wine from berries and from dandelions. I have never heard of making wine from both at the same time, but I allow it is possible. In any case, you will need a source of sugar. Dandelions don't have a lot so it would need to be added along with good, clean water. Berries would require less water and sugar depending on the amount of berries you have, their sweetness and the amount of juice you get from processing them.

There are all kinds of recipes on the internet. Here is one for dandelion wine:

Dandelion Wine Recipe

1. Early in the morning when the dew is on the flowers, pick one gallon of perfect, open dandelion blossoms.
2. Put the flowers in a two gallon or larger open crock and pour boiling water over them. Cover the crock with cheesecloth and let it sit at room temperature for three days. Then squeeze all the juice outta the flowers, throw them away and save the liquid.
3. Put the liquid into a big pot and add:
   • 3 lbs. sugar (we used brown raw sugar for healthiness but next time we'll try honey for healthierness. The nice lady used white (ugh) sugar.)
   • 3 or 4 lemons, juice, skin, seeds, etc., all chopped up.
   • 3 or 4 oranges, chopped
4. Boil mixture for 30 minutes with top on pot, cool to lukewarm, pour into crock and add 1 1/2 or 2 packages or tablespoons of yeast. Cover with cheesecloth and let brew sit for two or three weeks 'til the bubbling stops and — whammy!
   
5. Filter through cheesecloth to strain out chunks and save vitamins. Bottle.

 

[richiev]

I remember going to the train yards with my grandfather to buy grapes. He would have the merchant open up the train cars ,then taste the grapes before he would make a decision on which ones to buy. He would always say the barrels have to be perfectly clean. He would remove the tops and, set the insides of the barrels on fire. Also he would light a sulfur stick and, put it into the bung hole. These were used fifty gal. whiskey barrels. If that is what you have, your going to have to fill the whole barrel,and then some. We would start around Sept. Oct.. Crush, ferment, press then fill an aging barrel. This would sit until Easter, then racked into a second barrel. He would always have extra to fill the barrel. They may be air tight, but your going to loose some to the angles share. This would sit for another six months or until grandpa would say it's good. Or we would sneak drinks.

 

[LucasB]

I remember going to the train yards with my grandfather to buy grapes. He would have the merchant open up the train cars ,then taste the grapes before he would make a decision on which ones to buy. He would always say the barrels have to be perfectly clean. He would remove the tops and, set the insides of the barrels on fire. Also he would light a sulfur stick and, put it into the bung hole. These were used fifty gal. whiskey barrels. If that is what you have, your going to have to fill the whole barrel,and then some. We would start around Sept. Oct.. Crush, ferment, press then fill an aging barrel. This would sit until Easter, then racked into a second barrel. He would always have extra to fill the barrel. They may be air tight, but your going to loose some to the angles share. This would sit for another six months or until grandpa would say it's good. Or we would sneak drinks.

Thank you very much for the information! This is, I assume, similar to what my grandfather would've done.
In summary, I should re-clean the barrel (light it on fire) and get a sulfur stick - I will look up the exact procedure for this part unless it's super simple.
The main thing to clarify - I 'm pretty much doing the entire wine making process as usual THEN I'm finishing it, or aging it (after it ferments?) in a used barrel for a few months, then I transfer all that to another barrel to finalize it, correct?

 

[LucasB]

Lucas, I am sure there is a lot more to it than what your family members remember. One can make wine from berries and from dandelions. I have never heard of making wine from both at the same time, but I allow it is possible. In any case, you will need a source of sugar. Dandelions don't have a lot so it would need to be added along with good, clean water. Berries would require less water and sugar depending on the amount of berries you have, their sweetness and the amount of juice you get from processing them.

There are all kinds of recipes on the internet. Here is one for dandelion wine:

Dandelion Wine Recipe

1. Early in the morning when the dew is on the flowers, pick one gallon of perfect, open dandelion blossoms.
2. Put the flowers in a two gallon or larger open crock and pour boiling water over them. Cover the crock with cheesecloth and let it sit at room temperature for three days. Then squeeze all the juice outta the flowers, throw them away and save the liquid.
3. Put the liquid into a big pot and add:
   • 3 lbs. sugar (we used brown raw sugar for healthiness but next time we'll try honey for healthierness. The nice lady used white (ugh) sugar.)
   • 3 or 4 lemons, juice, skin, seeds, etc., all chopped up.
   • 3 or 4 oranges, chopped
4. Boil mixture for 30 minutes with top on pot, cool to lukewarm, pour into crock and add 1 1/2 or 2 packages or tablespoons of yeast. Cover with cheesecloth and let brew sit for two or three weeks 'til the bubbling stops and — whammy!
   
5. Filter through cheesecloth to strain out chunks and save vitamins. Bottle.

Rocky,

Thank you so much! This is some great instruction and I will definitely be trying it out.

When it comes to utilizing the barrel, would I want to follow this procedure then simply put it in a barrel to age? My confusion is when the barrel comes into play to be completely honest.

Thanks again!

 

[Rocky]

Rocky,

Thank you so much! This is some great instruction and I will definitely be trying it out.

When it comes to utilizing the barrel, would I want to follow this procedure then simply put it in a barrel to age? My confusion is when the barrel comes into play to be completely honest.

Thanks again!

I can only speak to how we used barrels when we made wine from grapes. We used to ferment the wine in an open barrel, i.e. one end removed and the barrel set upright on the other end. We had a drain hole at the bottom with a tapered dowel plug tapped in with a mallet. We would crush the fruit into this barrel by putting the crusher on top and allowing the crushed grapes to fall into the barrel. The fermentation would begin almost immediately and the wine would stay in this barrel for 10 to 14 days. We would drain the wine out through the opening into buckets and pour that wine into a second barrel, lying on its side with the bung hold up. We would fill the barrel halfway up the bung opening and keep it at that level by continuing to add wine. There would still be some fermentation taking place and a lot of skin debris would bubble up out of the bung hole. Wine making usually started in the second week of October (we were in Pittsburgh at the time and the grapes were from California). It would be almost the end of October when the wine would go from the fermenting barrel to the working barrel. We would then seal the working barrel in the first week of December and the wine would be in this barrel until after Easter, at which time it would be bottled.

What size barrels to you have? We had 53 gallon fermenting barrels and 20, 30 and 53 gallon working barrels (we made a lot of wine). Incidentally, the "first run" wine, that is the first wine to come out of the fermenting barrel was always kept separate from wine that was produced from pressing the grapes after fermenting. If you are making either dandelion wine or berry wine, you will have to have enough to keep the working barrel filled to the mid point of the bung hole. There is evaporation taking place and the wine is concentrating somewhat during this time.

 

[mainshipfred]

Lucas, please don't think I'm trying to burst your bubble, I just want to make sure you understand all that is going into your venture and to try to prevent disappointment down the road.

1. The size of the barrel is very important. Others have mentioned you have to have enough wine to keep the barrel topped up (full) and if it is a 50+ gallon barrel that is a lot of wine to make. You are talking 10 six gallon carboys.
2. A whiskey barrel is charred and a wine barrel is toasted meaning a much lesser degree of burnt wood. Wood, being porous, is a breeding ground for unwanted microbes and such. If the barrel has been sitting dry in unknown conditions who knows what is growing in there.
3. Retoasting a barrel if that is what you want to do requires removing the heads which unless you've done it before is not the easiest thing to do. Plus the proper way to toast a barrel is to sand the staves.
4. Once the heads are removed you don't set the barrel on fire but set it over a fire. When done you reinstall the heads and test the barrel for leaks but you still have the possibility of unwanted microbes.

If you are really interested in making your own wine I would highly recommend starting with a kit, learn the ropes, research and ask questions before entering such an aggressive venture.

 

[richiev]

You can always buy new smaller barrels, they come in many different sizes . Most will all ready be charred. There are many types of no rinse, acid sanitizers you could use. No matter what size barrel you use, make extra your going to need it.

 

[LucasB]

Lucas, please don't think I'm trying to burst your bubble, I just want to make sure you understand all that is going into your venture and to try to prevent disappointment down the road.

1. The size of the barrel is very important. Others have mentioned you have to have enough wine to keep the barrel topped up (full) and if it is a 50+ gallon barrel that is a lot of wine to make. You are talking 10 six gallon carboys.
2. A whiskey barrel is charred and a wine barrel is toasted meaning a much lesser degree of burnt wood. Wood, being porous, is a breeding ground for unwanted microbes and such. If the barrel has been sitting dry in unknown conditions who knows what is growing in there.
3. Retoasting a barrel if that is what you want to do requires removing the heads which unless you've done it before is not the easiest thing to do. Plus the proper way to toast a barrel is to sand the staves.
4. Once the heads are removed you don't set the barrel on fire but set it over a fire. When done you reinstall the heads and test the barrel for leaks but you still have the possibility of unwanted microbes.

If you are really interested in making your own wine I would highly recommend starting with a kit, learn the ropes, research and ask questions before entering such an aggressive venture.

Thank you! This is some of the information I was hoping to get. Obviously my main concern is going through the entire process then ending up with junk after such a long time. I bought this barrel about 8 months ago and it has been sitting in a garage so I'm not sure if I trust it... Maybe I'll look into attempting a retoasting via taking the heads off and such - Is there anything else I could use the barrel for otherwise? I'm thinking it's worth a try since I already have it.

Thanks again! I appreciate any further input! What would you do?

 

[LucasB]

You can always buy new smaller barrels, they come in many different sizes . Most will all ready be charred. There are many types of no rinse, acid sanitizers you could use. No matter what size barrel you use, make extra your going to need it.

How much do those usually cost? I got this barrel via someone on etsy who purchases them from the Jack distillery (supposedly)

 

[richiev]

How much do those usually cost? I got this barrel via someone on etsy who purchases them from the Jack distillery (supposedly)

It’s been a very long time since I have purchased one. They can be costly, but you’ll be surprised at the cost differences when you shop around. You can buy them is sizes from quarts to gallons.

 

[mainshipfred]

Lucas, if you search the popular online wine supply places you will find the barrels to be very expensive. Another member recently bought 2 barrels from The Barrel Mill (link below). They looked very nice. The key to wine making is you have to use toasted not charred barrels, it is very important. Their website only lists charred but if you call them they will provide a toasted barrel. Please make sure you read the reviews if you choose to use another source. It seems there are more scammers out there than legit vendors.

https://www.thebarrelmill.com/

 

[sremick]

I really like the romantic concept of making my wine in wooden barrels. But every time I study the science (sanitation), extra work and costs involved it really becomes hard to justify.

 

[mainshipfred]

I really like the romantic concept of making my wine in wooden barrels. But every time I study the science (sanitation), extra work and costs involved it really becomes hard to justify.

There's not much that can be done with the cost of the barrels but don't let the extra work and sanitation scare you away. Just make sure you select the proper size barrel and have enough like wine to be able to top off regularly. It's also helpful if you have enough wine to keep it continually full.

 

[sremick]

Just make sure you select the proper size barrel and have enough like wine to be able to top off regularly. It's also helpful if you have enough wine to keep it continually full.

Extra wine... which is stored in another barrel? Which then now needs to be topped off with extra wine... from another barrel?

Even if you're storing the majority in barrels but then your "extra" in glass carboys... anything you steal from will then itself need to be topped-off from something. Unless you're just storing a lot of extras in 1-gal jugs and drinking whatever is left over each time you top off.

Sometimes I feel dense and that I'm missing something.

 

[mainshipfred]

Extra wine... which is stored in another barrel? Which then now needs to be topped off with extra wine... from another barrel?

Even if you're storing the majority in barrels but then your "extra" in glass carboys... anything you steal from will then itself need to be topped-off from something. Unless you're just storing a lot of extras in 1-gal jugs and drinking whatever is left over each time you top off.

Sometimes I feel dense and that I'm missing something.

My extra wines are in a variety of containers from 375 ml to one gallon. So I just keep putting the wine in a smaller container when I top off. If they're similar wines I just combine them and use it for topping. I figure they are all my wines so it doesn't make much difference as long as they are similar. Forgot to mention SO2, barrels require more than carboys. I guess my original point was don't be afraid of using barrels, it does improve the wine.

 

[Ajmassa]

Extra wine... which is stored in another barrel? Which then now needs to be topped off with extra wine... from another barrel?

Even if you're storing the majority in barrels but then your "extra" in glass carboys... anything you steal from will then itself need to be topped-off from something. Unless you're just storing a lot of extras in 1-gal jugs and drinking whatever is left over each time you top off.

Sometimes I feel dense and that I'm missing something.

It was overwhelming for me at first. But after I actually jumped in it really wasn’t much of a thing.
I don’t go crazy with so2. Rule of thumb is every 5-6gal get 1/4tsp every month. But I’ll hit it every couple months and it’s fine. And I top up every 3-6 weeks or just whenever I remember.

When filling the barrel I also bottle and cork a bunch of 375ml bottles to use for topping. If only half used Ill just drink the rest or I’ll thief out the equivalent and drink the barrel wine to taste the progress.

 

[winemaker81]

@sremick, you're right -- the barrel requires additional work that a carboy doesn't. In my case, the end result justifies the effort.

I recently purchased a used 54 liter barrel (14.25 gallons) that has been in constant use for 10 years by a winemaker I know, so I trusted the barrel was in good condition. The price was about 15% of a new barrel, although price was not my driving force.

Why did I want used instead of new?

The answer is "control". At 10 years old, it has no oak character left to give, but it does provide evaporation through the wood. I have been topping it with about 500 ml each month.

For oak character, I am using oak cubes. This provides the control and flexibility, as I choose the type (American, French, Hungarian), the toast level, and the amount. I can also mix type/toast to produce flavor profiles a newer barrel won't allow, e.g., 2 oz medium toast French with 4 oz heavy toast Hungarian. I'm racking every 3 months, so I can change the cube mix to change the flavor profile.

A newer barrel might require that I swap wines in/out for the first year or two to avoid over-oaking. I don't have to worry about that (as long as I don't over-do the cubes), and I'll leave the wine in the barrel until I have next year's wine ready to go into it. Unless absolutely necessary I'm not using a holding solution.