My local winemaking store is closed!

[Snafflebit]

The owner decided to retire and now my favorite source of yeast and winemaking chemicals is closed! He had all the yeasts available by the gram.

And also, our local MoreWine retail store closed.

What are members’ favorite source of yeast via mail order? I could buy from MoreWine but I tend to focus those purchases on equipment.

 

[Kraffty]

Ive used Morewine on and off for years and I believe one of their warehouses is in Sacramento area which could be a factor to consider.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

I buy from morewinemaking.com. They have a N CA distribution center (Pittsburg, CA; the other one is Pittsburg, PA...) I typically receive shipments within a day or two - I think once it was literally next day. I've always found their service to be very good. The only time I came unstuck was when I placed an order for ML bacteria (with a cool pack) on a Friday and asked them to hold shipment until the next week... they shipped it out same day and it must have sat in a warehouse over the weekend since it arrived warm on Monday. They issued me a refund (in the form of a store gift certificate), no questions asked. I will be ordering my yeast, nutrients etc from them this harvest season.

 

[winemaker81]

I buy primarily from my LHBS American Brewmaster (https://americanbrewmaster.com), which is happy to ship.

I've also purchased from Grape & Granary, Label Peelers, and Northern Brewer.

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

Hmmm, you could open a LHBS

 

[heatherd]

I use Label Peelers for mail order.

 

[Snafflebit]

Hmmm, you could open a LHBS

I seriously entertained the idea. I talked to the owner about his business and he was trying to sell the business, but there was finally no buyer. Talking to other LHBS owners, it is not an easy business.

 

[winemaker81]

I seriously entertained the idea. I talked to the owner about his business and he was trying to sell the business, but there was finally no buyer. Talking to other LHBS owners, it is not an easy business.

If I was opening an LHBS, I'd market heavily on the net and plan for a lot of online sales, meaning a lot of packaging. Sales on Amazon seem like a necessity.

 

[bstnh1]

The owner decided to retire and now my favorite source of yeast and winemaking chemicals is closed! He had all the yeasts available by the gram.

And also, our local MoreWine retail store closed.

What are members’ favorite source of yeast via mail order? I could buy from MoreWine but I tend to focus those purchases on equipment.

Having no local LHBS, I order just about all my supplies from LabelPeelers. Shipping is a killer, but they guarantee lowest shipped cost and I've found that to be true.

 

[Christopher Anderson]

Though i like to order from LP, More wine or others, If I order a lot of the individual [packages, I just order from amazon and someone there. Never have had an issue with them. However, my local store is whom I prefer. I will drive across town to just by an item. why? To keep them in business.

 

[winemaker81]

I've mentioned in the past I was co-owner of a LHBS in Rome NY in the late 80's / early 90's. My partner and I decided to close 'cuz we weren't making enough money to justify the effort (we both had day jobs).

When we put out the "going out of business" notice we had folks coming out of the woodwork. Folks my partner had not see in 5+ years (he ran the store out of his basement prior to partnering with me and moving to a storefront) showed up.

They all asked, "why are you going out of business?" We were polite, but the answer was, "Because you were not buying anything from us."

Support your LHBS or it may not be there ...

The truly sad thing is that if we consistently made the money we did during our last 3 months, we both could have both quit our day jobs and ran the LHBS full time.

 

[Snafflebit]

The shop appeared to have high and low seasons, especially around grape harvest and he was innundated with customers September through October, and then very quiet periods. Such lumpy cash flow is very hard to manage for a business. Beer making kept the business running the other 10 months of the year. He said that he could easily take time off for long vacations. The main problem for me is that I would be busy with harvest and ferment at the same time as all the customers!

 

[winemaker81]

The shop appeared to have high and low seasons, especially around grape harvest and he was innundated with customers September through October, and then very quiet periods. Such lumpy cash flow is very hard to manage for a business. Beer making kept the business running the other 10 months of the year. He said that he could easily take time off for long vacations. The main problem for me is that I would be busy with harvest and ferment at the same time as all the customers!

Beer is the consistent money-maker for LHBS, IME. When I did it, winemaking was revenue from September through early November, with some additives sales during the winter. In the spring/summer there was a slight spike from fruit wines.

Beer making sales were fairly consistent and paid the rent most of the year.

If I were doing it today?

• Talk to grape distributors (such as Musto & Gino Pinto) about promoting and/or re-selling grapes & juice. BOTH in the fall and spring.
• Promote fruit wine production.
• Promote kit wine and concentrate production.
• Seek out local wine and beer making clubs. Do presentations if they are interested.
• Do presentations for ANYONE who is interested.
• Research brewing and winemaking on-premises.
• Teach classes in both wine and beer making.
• Make videos about wine and beer making, and start a YouTube channel.
• Sell on Amazon. Consider other online sites.
• Seek wine and beer making forums and be a top rated responder to questions. Use the platforms to advertise within the forum rules.

Customer development is key. This is not for the faint of heart! It's ongoing work!

But it can be fun.

I did a beer making presentation for an Optimist Club. I was given 20 minutes to present, had a 15 minute presentation with 5 minutes for questions. The club president cut the questions off at 30 minutes.

In June 1999 I did a presentation for a local beekeeper's organization. I spoke and answered questions for over an hour. As few years ago I updated the page on my site where I posted a facts sheet for the presentation. All of the links were dead, which highlights the everchanging nature of the internet.

Today's winemaking world is completely different from when I ran a LHBS.

 

[Rocky]

That has to be a really tough business. Fairly high turnover rate on the stores I have known and used. I try to patronize companies in Ohio (Label Peelers, Grape and Granary and Home Brew Ohio). I shop for convenience and not price because I feel in the greater scheme of things, a few bucks either way are not going to change my lifestyle. With those three companies, I can cover most of the products I prefer, i.e. RJ Spagnol, Winexpert, FWK. For fresh grapes and juices, we have a great company in nearby Columbus, dba Joe Mercurio, Inc. I can also find most, if not all equipment at those four sites, the AIO pump and accessories being notable exceptions.

 

[distancerunner]

Sigh.

I've tried to be an amiable member of this forum. While I don't post often, it is usually in an area in which I have some expertise. Most of the time I read and ask questions. I respect the knowledge of the people here. If I venture an opinion I label it as such. I generally leave speculation to others.

However, this subject has put a burr under my saddle.

"It must be a really tough business."

Boy, do I love hearing that one. It's usually said by people who have never been in business, never had total bottom line responsibility, or have failed in business.

Here's the deal: All businesses are equally hard. Or, more precisely, all businesses are equally easy. It all depends on whether or not you know what you're doing.

That last sentence is the one that everyone misinterprets.

The ability to ferment, along with the abilities to hang crown molding, do tax accounting, calculate the load on a bridge piers, diagnose cancer, fix an internal combustion engine, write a program, throw a baseball, defend someone in a divorce, you name it, is absolutely USELESS* when it comes to running a business. (Maybe not useless, though minimal, but we'll get to that.) You will note that none of those skills are taught in business school.

Marketing. Accounting. Finance. Sales. Advertising. Managing people, both employees and customers. These are the skills that are necessary to run a business. If you don't have 'em, don't go into business. You will fail, rather quickly. If you've already taken the plunge, hie thee to the local community college and take a couple of classes before you lose your ass.

Most people who start businesses do so in an industry that they love. They are good at the tasks. If they have a business background and/or are successful, everyone of them ends up behind a desk. Why? Because somebody has to run the business.

Most people who go into business doing what they love end up running a business rather than doing what they love.

Of course, you can hire a manager. That's what artists, musicians, and many craftspeople do. Then you spend a good bit of your time watching them. If you don't have some business knowledge it's a prescription for disaster.

*Knowing how to do the work is important. But it is better to have a passing knowledge of the tasks and a deep understanding of the economics of the individual industry and the company you own than have mastered the minutiae of crown molding. Or cancer.

 

[Snafflebit]

Ha! There is definitely a burr way up under your saddle.

This LHBS business was mostly run by the owner, with some temporary help, occassionally. So, after my initial romantic idea of owning a business wore off I began to sense that this business was actually someone making a job for himself. What's the difference, you ask? A business generates profit, return on capital... A job mostly pays the bills and keeps oneself busy. I have many, many ways to keep myself busy. Also, I could not figure out what "buying the business" meant, what was the secret sauce? The business "value" was the wholesale cost of inventory, maybe a few improvements in a rental space and a list of customers. And oh god I am not good dealing with people. So, I "noped" out.

I grew up with small-time restauranteurs opening a tavern or burger joint and seeing the enterprise turn into their own personal busywork Hell. The only people making money were food and drink distributors offering easy credit terms and "free" equipment while the owner gets further behind on the bills or spends money that was meant for payroll taxes, then they sell the whole mess to some other fool.

Whew, now I am getting worked up

 

[winemaker81]

"It must be a really tough business."

Boy, do I love hearing that one. It's usually said by people who have never been in business, never had total bottom line responsibility, or have failed in business.

As someone who has run two for-profit businesses and one international zero-revenue business, I am qualified to say that running a LHBS is a tough business.

A LHBS has 3 negative factors that most small businesses do not:

• It's a niche market with a very limited customer base.
• A large segment of the revenue is seasonally based.
• It has geographic restrictions in that it needs a strong local winemaking population.

Do other types of businesses have these factors? Absolutely! It's not a unique set of conditions, but it's not common, either.

As folks may have guessed, I've given this a lot of thought over the years. As I approach retirement I have given serious thought to starting a LHBS as something to do when I no longer have a day job.

After thinking things through, I realize I just don't have the ambition to do it. The problem with turning one's hobby into a job, is that it becomes a job. The goal of retiring is to not have a day job, right?

The business "value" was the wholesale cost of inventory, maybe a few improvements in a rental space and a list of customers. And oh god I am not good dealing with people.

Of the things you'd buy, the customer list is the most important. IF you were going to do this, you'd want to put out a mailing immediately to let customers know the business is under new management. I'd make the mailing a 10% off coupon that expires in 60 days, to bring people in.

Hate dealing with people? Yeah, that takes running a LHBS off the table.

We have it easy on this forum, as we have a diverse group to address newbie problems. As a LHBS owner, you're on your own and you WILL deal with crazies.

 

[Rocky]

Quoting @winemaker81

"As someone who has run two for-profit businesses and one international zero-revenue business, I am qualified to say that running a LHBS is a tough business.

A LHBS has 3 negative factors that most small businesses do not:

• It's a niche market with a very limited customer base.
• A large segment of the revenue is seasonally based.
• It has geographic restrictions in that it needs a strong local winemaking population.

Do other types of businesses have these factors? Absolutely! It's not a unique set of conditions, but it's not common, either."

Yes, Bryan, this is what I meant by a "tough business."

Other issues I see with an LHBS are:

• Ease of entry for competitors. As you pointed out, your former partner used to run the business out of his basement and others can do the same.
• A fairly constant demand, year to year. People enter the hobby and and people exit the hobby so that "growth" is really minimal.
• With the advent of e-commerce and the Internet, nothing is "truly local" any longer. I would venture that few if any "business plans" for an LHBS envisioned the effect these phenomena would have.
• The demise of brick and mortar stores in general.
• The declining popularity of wine among the public.
• "Tradition" is becoming a more distant motivation for making wine.

 

[distancerunner]

RE: Niche markets, business cycle (seasonality), and demographics for a specific area

These are challenges that are present for all small businesses. They exist to varying degrees.

For example, take the landscaping business in the North East.

• Not everyone is willing to pay to have their grass cut. (Niche market)
• There's no grass to cut from October to April
• Urban areas require less mundane services

The budding landscaper needs to market to affluent areas. They remove snow and salt parking lots in the winter. In urban areas they have to market and focus on ornamental planting and care. If they want to be in business next year.

Every entrepreneur, every business owner faces these challenges.

That's why one business is no easier than another.

Though older than you, I continue to work because I enjoy the challenge of running businesses. Neither my grandfather, nor my father retired. Both were business owners and died with their boots on. It's not in our DNA.

However, I have noticed that my friends who have retired are busier than I am and have little time for leisure.

 

[Rocky]

RE: Niche markets, business cycle (seasonality), and demographics for a specific area

These are challenges that are present for all small businesses. They exist to varying degrees.

For example, take the landscaping business in the North East.

• Not everyone is willing to pay to have their grass cut. (Niche market)
• There's no grass to cut from October to April
• Urban areas require less mundane services

The budding landscaper needs to market to affluent areas. They remove snow and salt parking lots in the winter. In urban areas they have to market and focus on ornamental planting and care. If they want to be in business next year.

Every entrepreneur, every business owner faces these challenges.

That's why one business is no easier than another.

Though older than you, I continue to work because I enjoy the challenge of running businesses. Neither my grandfather, nor my father retired. Both were business owners and died with their boots on. It's not in our DNA.

However, I have noticed that my friends who have retired are busier than I am and have little time for leisure.

Can you support either of these statements or are they merely opinions?