My plan for 2017 wine from California grapes

[ceeaton]

When I was having difficulty with the PS from last year (dosed twice with White Labs MLB), Craig was good enough to bring over some wine sludge from his to drop into the carboy and it finished without issue.

The wine temps are around 68* and the pH is just fine. I don't have a way to test SO2 levels. But the wines went through AF with no issue and finished around 14.4% ABV. I think the BM4x4 may have something to do with it.

I used VP41 this time.

If someone has some MLB sludge, I'll take it! Otherwise, I'm going to try to get the wines warmer and add some nutrient. Suggestions are always appreciated.

My sludge is your sludge, but my sludge has been racked off of and Kmeta'd a few times.

 

[jgmann67]

My sludge is your sludge, but my sludge has been racked off of and Kmeta'd a few times.

That's probably not going to work. Thanks tho.

 

[Ajmassa]

I know the so2 titrets don’t have a great rep. But without expensive equipment, those titrets are good enough.
Accuracy ranges some, but still gives you a good idea of the so2. Better than just guessing. I use em when needed.

 

[Ajmassa]

Just another curveball from the wine gods.
I guess I started mlf’ing at a great time. With a few guinea pig MLF co-inoculations already done successfully to pave the way. Malo added in a low alcohol environment seems to work very well, but not ideal $$ if you’re starting batches weeks apart.
We need to petition to get those workhorse MLBs offered in smaller packages.- yeah that should be easy.
(Or cut a deal with Hartford for multiple-order flat crush-fees and rented freezer space)

 

[jgmann67]

I'm thinking about hitting it with som CH16. Thoughts?

 

[mainshipfred]

Just another curveball from the wine gods.
I guess I started mlf’ing at a great time. With a few guinea pig MLF co-inoculations already done successfully to pave the way. Malo added in a low alcohol environment seems to work very well, but not ideal $$ if you’re starting batches weeks apart.
We need to petition to get those workhorse MLBs offered in smaller packages.- yeah that should be easy.
(Or cut a deal with Hartford for multiple-order flat crush-fees and rented freezer space)

I never had luck with White Labs but they do recommend it being introduced at 5 brix. Might be something to the low alcohol thing. I said this before but my experience with commercial wineries is they buy the MLB in large quantities and within reason just seal the package, refrigerate and use it when the next batch is ready. Not saying they us it the nest year but weeks doesn't seem to be a problem.

 

[Ajmassa]

I never had luck with White Labs but they do recommend it being introduced at 5 brix. Might be something to the low alcohol thing. I said this before but my experience with commercial wineries is they buy the MLB in large quantities and within reason just seal the package, refrigerate and use it when the next batch is ready. Not saying they us it the nest year but weeks doesn't seem to be a problem.

That’s a great point there. Pretty cool to help out at that winery getting a different perspective on things. Makes me think the “not able to be re-used once packet is opened” is likely them just covering their ***. Mental not for future batches if needed.
In May I ran into this issue and I pitched all malo to the same batch. Then just added those skins to the next one right after pressing. No new yeast or malo needed. The 2nd AF & MLF took off like gangbusters! And finished quick too.
But I knew it was a factor for at least some of you Harford guys and I thought was reason for inoculating all the batches simultaneously.

 

[jgmann67]

I've been working late for the last week (really the last couple months) and haven't had time to do more than look at my wines. I'll decide this weekend whether to hit it again with a different MLB. Would love to hear from those that have had this issue previously.

 

[Johnd]

I've been working late for the last week (really the last couple months) and haven't had time to do more than look at my wines. I'll decide this weekend whether to hit it again with a different MLB. Would love to hear from those that have had this issue previously.

I've been there on a few, all were made from grapes that had been shipped with SO2 pads prior to crushing / destemming. Repeated applications of MLB, pH increases, perfect temps, didn't ever do the trick. If you scour through the MoreWinemaking manuals in the MLF section, you'll find a little blurb in there that mentions that bound SO2 can inhibit MLF. My thoughts at the time were that (despite the fact I had never added SO2 to the must) the bound SO2 levels were high enough to inhibit my MLB, and I gave up. Today, the wines have been through barrels, bulk aged, and bottled, and are quite nice..........

 

[jgmann67]

I've been there on a few, all were made from grapes that had been shipped with SO2 pads prior to crushing / destemming. Repeated applications of MLB, pH increases, perfect temps, didn't ever do the trick. If you scour through the MoreWinemaking manuals in the MLF section, you'll find a little blurb in there that mentions that bound SO2 can inhibit MLF. My thoughts at the time were that (despite the fact I had never added SO2 to the must) the bound SO2 levels were high enough to inhibit my MLB, and I gave up. Today, the wines have been through barrels, bulk aged, and bottled, and are quite nice..........

This is only my second attempt at wine from fresh grapes. So, before I throw in the towel on kick starting an MLF, is there really than much of a quantifiable difference if don't get the MLF done?

 

[JohnT]

This is only my second attempt at wine from fresh grapes. So, before I throw in the towel on kick starting an MLF, is there really than much of a quantifiable difference if don't get the MLF done?

IMHO, yes.

I am not saying that you wine will not be drinkable without MLF. What I am saying is that MLF can make a great wine even better! MLF adds a soft and buttery quality to wine. IMHO, MLF is well worth it.

 

[Johnd]

I agree with @JohnT , it is worth the effort. But Jim, if it just won't go, do not despair, as I stated a couple posts back, your wine is certainly not lost, just not quite as good as it may have been. It's one of the reasons I switched to co-inoculation, the environment is much more friendly prior to alcohol production, and success for me is 100% since switching.

 

[Boatboy24]

Jim,

One of my regrets with my 2016 Chileans was continuing attempts to get MLF going over the course of many months. The lack of free SO2 in the wine is one thing that I think contributed to them going south on me. Pretty convinced at this point that my issue was VA that took off in the absence of free SO2. In the future, I plan to co-inoculate and not wait so long. If the wine is tasting OK now, its only going to get better with time. Yes, MLF will definitely improve it and soften it, but so will age.

Were it my wine, I'd probably give another bacteria a chance. But take a chromo before you start. If you don't see a change in 2-3 weeks, throw in the towel and get some sulfite on that wine.

 

[JohnT]

Age will soften the wine, but not in the same way.

There is no mistaking a wine that has had a complete MLF.

 

[jgmann67]

Alrighty then. I appreciate all of the advice.

Over the holidays, I'm going to pitch a CH16 (a bit heartier than the VP41, I believe) and some opti-malo to the three carboys of wine. I'll wait 3 weeks and test again. If it goes nowhere, I'm going to rack and dose with kmeta, then tuck it in for a long winter's nap.

Next year, I think I'm on the co-inoculation bandwagon, too.

 

[mainshipfred]

I have 2 that show very little signs of MLF and one that is chugging along slowly. I need to do a chromo test this weekend. I've bee trying to keep the free S02 between 15 and 20 ppm so I think I'm protected. I never considered the bound S02. @Johnd I think I can test for bound S02 with my 300. What levels do you think would start to inhibit the MLB. I can't seem to find anything.

 

[Boatboy24]

I have 2 that show very little signs of MLF and one that is chugging along slowly. I need to do a chromo test this weekend. I've bee trying to keep the free S02 between 15 and 20 ppm so I think I'm protected. I never considered the bound S02. @Johnd I think I can test for bound S02 with my 300. What levels do you think would start to inhibit the MLB. I can't seem to find anything.

I believe that when suppliers refer to an MLB's SO2 tolerance, they are referring to the total.

 

[Johnd]

I believe that when suppliers refer to an MLB's SO2 tolerance, they are referring to the total.

You’re correct. If you’re doing MLF on your wines, this is a must read:

http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/mlf09.pdf

 

[mainshipfred]

You’re correct. If you’re doing MLF on your wines, this is a must read:

http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/mlf09.pdf

Great article, so much to learn. Here is a chart of different bacteria and their properties. I used MBR 31.

http://www.scottlab.com/uploads/documents/technical-documents/878/ChoosingTheRightMLBacteria.pdf

 

[Ajmassa]

Don’t fear the lack of so2!
Now at 4 successful mlf’s, all of em coinnoculated vp-41. And held off all so2 additions on all of em until MLF completed. Even skipped so2 at crush since I was coinoculating.
I think learning by poor family old school winemaking practices taught me not to ever get hung up on so2-since it was never added by them. —as long as topped up seems to be plenty protection for course of mlf.