My plan for 2017 wine from California grapes

[Ajmassa]

High on malic is what I had read also. And you can’t go by TA since it is balanced with less tartaric, giving faulty numbers, as malic is not part of the TA #.
And actually Johnd said he was sorta experimenting with this. He added skins to a kit that had malo bacteria in em. As well as an MLF barrel too I think for a bit. And letting the chips fall where they may.
The so2 pads weren’t just pads I’ve just learned 4 hours ago! Did you see Johns’s post. Lugs with pads shipped in sulphite gas filled bags, in a refrigerated Sulfite gas filled shipping container. There a lot going on there.
And when the pesticide thing came up before it was said that the alcohol formed in AF was enough to kill of anything unwanted.

 

[mainshipfred]

Tim Vandergrift (if you don't know that name, Google him, he is the Godfather of kits) one said that kits are acid balanced with mostly malic acid and then have something added that would inhibit malolactic fermentation. If you could get Mlf to start you will end up with a very flabby low acid wine. If someone does decide to try to do this, use a very low end kit and only waste $50-75 not $135 or so.

I totally agree but as I mentioned, and unless I'm missing something, acid could always be added back to the wine. That is if it were possible in the first place. Different subject but similar topic. $135.00+ for a kit is why I'll probably stick with fresh juice and grapes even though it's seasonal.

 

[mainshipfred]

High on malic is what I had read also. And you can’t go by TA since it is balanced with less tartaric, giving faulty numbers, as malic is not part of the TA #.
And actually Johnd said he was sorta experimenting with this. He added skins to a kit that had malo bacteria in em. As well as an MLF barrel too I think for a bit. And letting the chips fall where they may.
The so2 pads weren’t just pads I’ve just learned 4 hours ago! Did you see Johns’s post. Lugs with pads shipped in sulphite gas filled bags, in a refrigerated Sulfite gas filled shipping container. There a lot going on there.
And when the pesticide thing came up before it was said that the alcohol formed in AF was enough to kill of anything unwanted.

@Ajmassa5983 I stand corrected. How's that for your ego and keeping up with @sour_grapes. @Johnd what were the results if you don't mind.

 

[Ajmassa]

Wahahaha. Actually Laughed out loud in line at CVS just now. I just like to bust his chops.
I’m pretty sure Johnd’s chroma test still had bright malic spots.
Maybe it’s you, or the eggnog in the air, But the forum feels more like I’m shootin the breeze at a corner bar today.

 

[mainshipfred]

Wahahaha. Actually Laughed out loud in line at CVS just now. I just like to bust his chops.
I’m pretty sure Johnd’s chroma test still had bright malic spots.
Maybe it’s you, or the eggnog in the air, But the forum feels more like I’m shootin the breeze at a corner bar today.

It's the Christmas spirit. Speaking of shooting the breeze, you coming to the meet up in February?

 

[Ajmassa]

Not likely. We make settlement on the new house Feb 1st. Renting our current place and lease is up 3/1. I have exactly 1 month to get it in enough shape to move in. - while still working 40+ hrs a week.
BUT... it’s not off the table. My brother lives in Bethlehem- a great excuse to see him and the kids. Or I was also thinking as an opportunity to hit Blue Mountain with the fam to go skiing either day before or after. We often go skiing Presidents’ Day wknd anyway.
But again, buying the house will likely take up every minute of my time for the foreseeable future.

 

[sour_grapes]

High on malic is what I had read also. And you can’t go by TA since it is balanced with less tartaric, giving faulty numbers, as malic is not part of the TA #.

I am slightly hesitant to correct you while you are having fun making fun of me for correcting you, but....

Malic certainly does show up in a TA test. "T" in TA stands for "titratable," not tartaric. Malic counts!

Another factor is that, if malic is added, and it is from synthetic sources, then the MLB bugs will only be able to eat 1/2 of the malic (because there are left- and right-handed versions of the acid in the lab, but only left-handed is produced in nature).

 

[Ajmassa]

I am slightly hesitant to correct you while you are having fun making fun of me for correcting you, but....

Malic certainly does show up in a TA test. "T" in TA stands for "titratable," not tartaric. Malic counts!

Another factor is that, if malic is added, and it is from synthetic sources, then the MLB bugs will only be able to eat 1/2 of the malic (because there are left- and right-handed versions of the acid in the lab, but only left-handed is produced in nature).

*rolling up sleeves*. Yes I realize TA is titritable (also ‘total’ by some). But the TA numbers as we know them won’t particularly matter.
My assumption is that out of a grape wines TA #, malic makes up for a small percent, given how strong it is. But in a kit TA numbers read much lower than they would grape wines. They add slightly more malic taking away the need for a large amount of tartaric.
So target numbers for kits are generally less than grape wines. But it would be difficult to go by numbers since we simply don’t know what the right balance would be for them. I suppose if you remove ALL malic, then maybe you could go by accepted grape wine TA’s.
If only half is removed then your just guessing what TA would need to be, and better off to go by taste at that point.
**edit. Ahhhh. I see I wrote “malic is not part of TA”. I meant to say malic is not EQUAL part of TA”

Here we go. So...ahem... I stand corrected Mr Sourgrapes. You are right.

 

[mainshipfred]

I am slightly hesitant to correct you while you are having fun making fun of me for correcting you, but....

Malic certainly does show up in a TA test. "T" in TA stands for "titratable," not tartaric. Malic counts!

Another factor is that, if malic is added, and it is from synthetic sources, then the MLB bugs will only be able to eat 1/2 of the malic (because there are left- and right-handed versions of the acid in the lab, but only left-handed is produced in nature).

I saw no hesitation whatsoever. I must have been ever so slight since you jumped right in.

So in the case of kits possibly getting flabby I would think you would use tartaric rather then malic to bring the caid levels back up.

 

[sour_grapes]

*
**edit. Ahhhh. I see I wrote “malic is not part of TA”. I meant to say malic is not EQUAL part of TA”

Here we go. So...ahem... I stand corrected Mr Sourgrapes. You are right.

And I thought you were making an error that you weren't really making, sooo,.... (wait for it!)

I stand corrected!

 

[mainshipfred]

And I thought you were making an error that you weren't really making, sooo,.... (wait for it!)

I stand corrected!

WOW AJ coming from the source your ego must have just skyrocketed.

 

[stickman]

If they add a small amount of fumaric acid to the juice or concentrate, ML can be inhibited for some period of time.

 

[Ajmassa]

Problem is that unless you’ve got inside information nobody really knows for sure. Plus the benefit for kitmakers is that the lab work is done for you.
Probably better off buying frozen must if you wanna make wine off season but don’t want to shut off the chemist part of your winemaking brain.

WOW AJ coming from the source your ego must have just skyrocketed.

Lol. It’s a stretch. Paul’s just being nice. And I thank him for that.
Jokes aside, Paul’s contributions are polite, insightful and usually spark up good convo/ as intended.
Just don’t watch jeopardy with him! We have on ABC news right into jeopardy most nights. And I am the master of my domain. Paul’s presence would lessen my perceived ‘genius’ status to my 10 yr old likely. Got an image to maintain.

 

[jgmann67]

Gave the “three wise men” a good stir this morning. It was active before the stir. But, it was crazy active after. Let’s hope this bodes well for the MLF.

 

[sour_grapes]

Lol. It’s a stretch. Paul’s just being nice. And I thank him for that.
Jokes aside, Paul’s contributions are polite, insightful and usually spark up good convo/ as intended.
Just don’t watch jeopardy with him! We have on ABC news right into jeopardy most nights. And I am the master of my domain. Paul’s presence would lessen my perceived ‘genius’ status to my 10 yr old likely. Got an image to maintain.

I've been traveling, and have not had a chance to respond. That was very kind, AJ; I appreciate the sentiments. I admit I am probably a pain in the pitooty at times! But we are all on the same page here -- let's make and drink some wine!!

 

[jgmann67]

After this morning's stir, the wine isn't nearly as active. Hoping that means things are winding down for the MLF. The wine is a constant 72*, and smells fine.

 

[jgmann67]

I racked the three wise men and dosed with Kmeta this morning. Glad I did.

I left the third carboy with the lees and oak after racking and had to run errands (and get more oxy-green to clean up). When I came back, the refuse in the dirty carboy had the same sour smell, but much more pronounced.

I should test to see if I can pin down exactly what it is. The four wines are resting, with less of a sour nose. I'll taste tomorrow sometime, but the taste last week was fine.

I racked and dosed the PV a month ago and the sour nose is nearly gone.

Any thoughts or suggestions are, as always, appreciated.

 

[ceeaton]

I racked the three wise men and dosed with Kmeta this morning. Glad I did.

I left the third carboy with the lees and oak after racking and had to run errands (and get more oxy-green to clean up). When I came back, the refuse in the dirty carboy had the same sour smell, but much more pronounced.

I should test to see if I can pin down exactly what it is. The four wines are resting, with less of a sour nose. I'll taste tomorrow sometime, but the taste last week was fine.

I racked and dosed the PV a month ago and the sour nose is nearly gone.

Any thoughts or suggestions are, as always, appreciated.

I'm thinking it is high time we test to see if your MLF has completed. Are you around on Sunday (I'm making beer and drinking beer and drinking more beer on Saturday)?

I'll bring a Brunello 375ml if you remind me. I got it out and put it somewhere it will annoy me so I remember it if I come over Sunday.

 

[jgmann67]

I'm thinking it is high time we test to see if your MLF has completed. Are you around on Sunday (I'm making beer and drinking beer and drinking more beer on Saturday)?

I'll bring a Brunello 375ml if you remind me. I got it out and put it somewhere it will annoy me so I remember it if I come over Sunday.

Yes I am. Sounds good.

 

[jgmann67]

The test came back "disappointing." No change. Two hits with an MLB. The lesson - coinoculate and use a more-compatible yeast.

Just to be extra hygienic, I racked and dosed the three amigos again. Hoping the sour nose fades to zero.