New (old) home with vineyard owner

[SandiaSlice]

Thanks for all of your replies.

I made the new plantings this spring with blue protection tubes. Many of the New Vines are now growing out the tops of the tubes which are at about 36 in from the ground. When do I remove these tubes? My inclination is to leave them until the vine can be tied to my 40-in wire which is the lowest wire I have. Inadvertently, I lifted one of the tubes yesterday and couldn't get it back down because the foliage on the vine opened up. Also, most of these new vines have growth on three or four buds. For a new planting on grafted rootstock, my reading tells me that I want to select and keep just two shoots off of the Scion, removing the weaker looking shoots. In order to do this , I have to remove the tube . When do people typically do this in the first season? I don't want to remove the tubes too early, but I'm figuring that they need to be removed before it gets to the point that I can't remove them without cutting them off. Is this right?

Sean

 

[ChuckD]

The first year you typically let the vine grow however it wants. Ignore the form since you just want it to put down good roots. Next spring you can prune to the best vine and start forming a trunk.

You need to remove the tube in time to let the vine harden off before winter. So maybe a month before the leaves start to fall. Earlier won’t hurt anything. If you have the two-part tubes you typically cut the sleeve to remove them.

ETA. I have no experience with grafted vines so there may be some specific pruning needed for them… for instance, removing growth below the graft.

 

[Snafflebit]

@ChuckD Exactly. For the first year let the vines grow unpruned. Year 2 is when pruning happens.

 

[tjmeyer]

As mentioned, year one is just about roots. But you do want to keep an eye on the vitis riparia like shoots from the root stock. Their new flesh is reddish and the leaves are a jagged heart shape.

 

[Jusatele]

nice place, My take on the natural root vines. The reason for grafted stock is to give roots that resist a lot of root decease. seeing as they are doing fine, you have time to decide what to do with them.
Now about the not being trimmed back for a few years, even the worst mistake only sets you back a year. Prune them to how you want to be and if you take off to much, or do not end with buds on last years growth, next year you will know what is what.
In a way grape vines are like weeds, it takes a lot to kill them and the always seem to find a way to fruit.
I let the 1st and second year letting roots establish and training the vine to above the bottom wire. The next year is getting what I am using as cordons trained, I rub off any fruit. the 4th year the vines are healthy, have a great root stock and they do very well. that is about a year longer than a lot of guys but I like the roots well established before stressing them with fruiting.

 

[SandiaSlice]

Hi. I'm the original poster of this thread.
I would like to post some updates ask some questions... growing wine grapes is a new thing for me... I appreciate all the input and advice:

So, to recap, my girlfriend and I bought a home in Corrales, NM - an agricultural community north of Albuquerque along the Rio Grande. There is a lot of wine production here, but mostly on land with acequia irrigation rights. I am in upper Corrales, no acequia rights, but a well with pumping rights to more water than I could use...

The house and land came with a neglected vineyard with a few Chardonnay and about 30 old Cabernet vines and a lot of empty space. The seller of the home to us wasn't the one who established the vinyard, but he tried adding a few Zinfandel at the far end "with no luck getting them going." I've discovered that that far row doesn't get a lot of water pressure for my irrigation, so I've been modifying the irrigation system to increase flow out there.

This spring - we planted 60 new vine. Thirty of these were Chamboursin and 30 were a new mostly Cabernet hybrid called "Errante Noir," both grafted on 1103P. I lost 5 of the Chamboursin and maybe 3 of the Errante Noir this spring - most likely to lack of irrigation and heat.

Here are some updated pictures:


I've moved the irrigation onto a thin wire off the ground to make the vineyard floor (and the irrigation system) easier to manage. Next week, I'll be working to tie robust new vines to the upper line (some rows don't have the wire strung yet).

Eons ago, i guess, the Rio Grande was where my property is. But now I am about 70 ft higher than the river. Nevertheless, I think my soil must be like 95% sand:

so I recently added about 2" of compost to a 3-4 ft diameter circle around each vine and mixed it into the sand in the hopes of giving the vine more to work with.

As I was out there working this weekend, I noticed that some of my new vines and some of the young leaves on the old vines are being consumed by these little green beetles...

Beetle in upper left of the larger image.
Does anyone know what these are and what, if anything, I should do about these? they fly and get around pretty well, so I suspect the whole vineyard could be at risk if I leave them - though they do seem to prefer the young supple leaves. should I remove the tubes? The beetles seem to be "protected" and are living their best lives down in the tubes...

Finally, later this summer/ early fall, I am planning on trying to plant red clover in the aisles to help cool off the vineyard next year (red clover is perrenial here), and to add biologic material to the slightly loamy sand as the clover can be cut a few times a year with clippings left in place on the vineyard floor... Is this a good idea? or should i just spread and mix-in compost every year and be happy my vineyard is easily weeded...


Thanks for any advice..

Sean
Thanks for any advice.

 

[Jovimaple]

Those look like Japanese beetles to me. We even have them in Minnesota! They destroy all the foliage. You can pick them off manually and drop them into a bucket of soapy water to kill them.

There are traps but I have heard the traps end up attracting them from miles away and so they have to be emptied at least daily.

I have had my lawn treated for their grubs the last few years, and my cherry tree sprayed. Both of those seem to be working for the most part, although I have noticed a few eating my raspberry bushes this year.

https://www.forbes.com/home-improve...lbeit icky—way,water to ensure they suffocate.

 

[SandiaSlice]

Those look like Japanese beetles to me. We even have them in Minnesota! They destroy all the foliage. You can pick them off manually and drop them into a bucket of soapy water to kill them.

There are traps but I have heard the traps end up attracting them from miles away and so they have to be emptied at least daily.

I have had my lawn treated for their grubs the last few years, and my cherry tree sprayed. Both of those seem to be working for the most part, although I have noticed a few eating my raspberry bushes this year.

https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement/pest-control/get-rid-of-japanese-beetles/#:~:text=One effective—albeit icky—way,water to ensure they suffocate.

Thanks for your reply Joni!
Actually, I did a Google Lens search and found that my bug is the Apple Flea Beetle:
https://wiki.bugwood.org/HPIPM:Apple_Flea_Beetle

Seems there are lots of ways to control them... I'm going to try the alcohol-water-soap spray, and if that doesn't work then try Neem oil. I thought Neem was for dormant use, but apparently you can use it during the growing season as well.

My vineyard is not producing much this first year, so Neem would be ok, I guess..

Sean

 

[Rice_Guy]

As Jovinaple noted I would have said japanese beetles. They love grape leaves and eat plants from the top down. Can you pull some off and photograph next to a ruler.
Anyway, I have found that Sevin will kill all insect pests to date. It has a short Pre harvest interval. To be more organic pyrethrum is my go to.

Low water pressure? One answer is to buy a tank to act as a surge tank at some outer location, fill it over night, and then pump from that when needed. It will be hard to establish vines without water.

 

[SandiaSlice]

As Jovinaple noted I would have said japanese beetles. They love grape leaves and eat plants from the top down. Can you pull some off and photograph next to a ruler.
Anyway, I have found that Sevin will kill all insect pests to date. It has a short Pre harvest interval. To be more organic pyrethrum is my go to.

Low water pressure? One answer is to buy a tank to act as a surge tank at some outer location, fill it over night, and then pump from that when needed. It will be hard to establish vines without water.

Thanks Mr. Guy. No these are not Japanese beetles. They are most definitely flea beetles. They are only about 4-5 mm long, hop and fly when disturbed, and look exactly like the picture in the URL I posted. We sprayed isopropyl alcohol, water and soap tonight which was recommended by a few resources online. If that doesn't work, I might skip Neem and go straight to Sevin... These things are eating vigorously...

As for water, I think the problem is the distribution line for the irrigation is that .5" black drip tubing all the way from the valves to the vineyard (about 75- 100 ft) and I have like 60 drip emitters on one zone. I'm converting the line to 3/4" rigid PVC all the way out and will use the drip tubing just for the last legs. I think, I'll probably end up having to make more zones eventually.. like just 30-35 vine per zone. My whole vineyard is just 105 plants, so that would just be one additional zone...

Do you spray Sevin? Or dust?

Thanks again,

Sean

 

[Rice_Guy]

I spray everything that goes on grape, apple, currant, raspberry, etc. I will put powder in cracks where insects nest in the building.

 

[wood1954]

Almost all insecticides degrade rapidly in the sunshine. Bifenthrin is very effective but is useless after 7 days in the sun, it’s become my go to during the summer, then closer to harvest I use a water based pyrethrum.

 

[Raptor99]

As for water, I think the problem is the distribution line for the irrigation is that .5" black drip tubing all the way from the valves to the vineyard (about 75- 100 ft) and I have like 60 drip emitters on one zone. I'm converting the line to 3/4" rigid PVC all the way out and will use the drip tubing just for the last legs. I think, I'll probably end up having to make more zones eventually.. like just 30-35 vine per zone.

That's exactly what I did this year setting up irrigation for our orchard and berries. 3/4" PVC for feed lines, and 0.5" tubing down the rows. Except in my case, I put the valves down near the orchard and berries. I wanted to install a spigot there anyway, so I ran a PVC source line and the sprinkler wire in the trench. That way, with one source line I can have 3-4 separate valves in that area.

We have some long drip lines, about 75' long, but they are going downhill, so I think that that should help with the water pressure and flow rate down at the end of the line.

 

[SandiaSlice]

Almost all insecticides degrade rapidly in the sunshine. Bifenthrin is very effective but is useless after 7 days in the sun, it’s become my go to during the summer, then closer to harvest I use a water based pyrethrum.

This is good info. Thanks.
It's hard to want to use any chemical on plants producing something I may use to make wine, but if it gets degraded quickly, that's a plus... It's also hard to watch my plants literally being completely eaten by a swarm of little bugs...

 

[Jovimaple]

Just because I could, I took a couple of pictures today ... this is a Japanese beetle on one of my raspberry bushes, and then a picture of the damage the pesky things do. They can skeletonize the leaves on whole trees or bushes easily.



And of course the grubs will destroy the lawn from underneath.

 

[RTRVineyard]

Thanks Mr. Guy. No these are not Japanese beetles. They are most definitely flea beetles. They are only about 4-5 mm long, hop and fly when disturbed, and look exactly like the picture in the URL I posted. We sprayed isopropyl alcohol, water and soap tonight which was recommended by a few resources online. If that doesn't work, I might skip Neem and go straight to Sevin... These things are eating vigorously...

As for water, I think the problem is the distribution line for the irrigation is that .5" black drip tubing all the way from the valves to the vineyard (about 75- 100 ft) and I have like 60 drip emitters on one zone. I'm converting the line to 3/4" rigid PVC all the way out and will use the drip tubing just for the last legs. I think, I'll probably end up having to make more zones eventually.. like just 30-35 vine per zone. My whole vineyard is just 105 plants, so that would just be one additional zone...

Do you spray Sevin? Or dust?

Thanks again,

Sean

Thanks Mr. Guy. No these are not Japanese beetles. They are most definitely flea beetles. They are only about 4-5 mm long, hop and fly when disturbed, and look exactly like the picture in the URL I posted. We sprayed isopropyl alcohol, water and soap tonight which was recommended by a few resources online. If that doesn't work, I might skip Neem and go straight to Sevin... These things are eating vigorously...

As for water, I think the problem is the distribution line for the irrigation is that .5" black drip tubing all the way from the valves to the vineyard (about 75- 100 ft) and I have like 60 drip emitters on one zone. I'm converting the line to 3/4" rigid PVC all the way out and will use the drip tubing just for the last legs. I think, I'll probably end up having to make more zones eventually.. like just 30-35 vine per zone. My whole vineyard is just 105 plants, so that would just be one additional zone...

Do you spray Sevin? Or dust?

Thanks again,

Sean

Drip with sand is tough. I would be worried you are getting lateral movement. See https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/45153.

Good news is phylloxera don’t like sand so you can fill any holes with your own cuttings.

Have fun with your vineyard!

 

[SandiaSlice]

Drip with sand is tough. I would be worried you are getting lateral movement. See https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/45153.

Good news is phylloxera don’t like sand so you can fill any holes with your own cuttings.

Have fun with your vineyard!

Wow! Thanks for the book chapter! This has a lot of information that will be applicable to my situation.

Sean